Adam not literal????

1 Tim 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

 

I "think" what Jim is saying is that as we are "ALL" Righteous "IN CHRIST",

"IN ADAM" would mean "ALL MANKIND" in sin. (all have sinned)

"Christian"= like Christ
"Adam"= like men.

I don't know If I'd agree with Jim's interpretation in Genesis, not having looked/studied.

 

"Adam" = like men ... is one to many

Many is plural, changing "man" to "men",

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam.......... all die,

 

If you were to ask any Hebrew reading Jew to read it to you they always sing or chant it (don't ask more than one as they instantly will begin an argument over tempo and rythym) but...yes the whole torah is in prose.

sometimes song inside of poetry...but yes...the whole thing is prose.

I freaked when I discovered that out...but take it from me...or not...go discover it on your own. I won't say, "I told you so" then...I am gonna go ahead and avoid the rush by doing it now. K?

 

Le 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

No, we wasn't "literally crucified" for our sin, but "spiritually", we had to crucify the old body of sin same as Jesus did,

It's part of our "conforming to his image".

 

one or two chapters I can see that...and it isn't anything to freak over.

I am talking about all five books of moses from beginning to end.


of course we can't see it in English...it would be pretty bad poetry (like the names of one of the characters in Genesis) if it were...but in Hebrew it is poetry.

KInd of like the Beattitudes. In greek they are lousy poetry but when translated into Aramaic it is a wonderful piece of poetry. This poetry is what helped many students in Bethgasheper memorize the Torah so that they really would know it.

 

That's a different subject, but sticking to this thread.

Here's what Jim said:

Tom replied:

Jim replied:

So how would you answer the question that "ADAM" referred to all mankind in the first chapters of Genesis and to an actual person in later chapters??

The Bible list "Adam/Eve/Cain/Able", but when Cain killed Able he went into the land of Nod and "knew his wife",

So who Fathered Cain's wife???

Ge 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife;

Evidently, Adam/Eve wasn't the only ones God created, only the first,

So "MAYBE", Jim is correct.

 

No, it's not. If you look at the Hebrew text, it is very easy to tell what the Masoretes thought was poetry and what was prose by the way that the visualize on the page. Furthermore, if you understand Hebrew poetry, you recognize that very little of the Pentateuch is poetry. (And Gen 1-2 has no characteristics of Hebrew poetry).

 

When questions are asked about Cain and his wife, I am always reminded of the story about, I think, Billy Sunday. He was told that someone would believe if Sunday told him where Cain got his wife. Sunday supposedly replied, "You won't be the first person who went to *&^% because of someone else's wife" :tonofbricks:

 

Actually I do have an understanding of Hebrew poetry...and that is why I am making such statements.

Visualizations on the page(of poetry and song) came way way after the masoretes. Take a look at the oldest complete bible (in greek) and look at the Septuagent.

The way that it was written was with the Masoretic notes in place. And there was no poetic visualizations on those pages...much less punctuation, paragraph indentations or anything like that.

 

From Hebrew tradition we are told that Adam and Eve had some 22 sons and daughters after Cain and Able.. Note, we use tradition, not biblical fact, and we work to surmise from there Cain married his sister.

We also forget that many years passed, some students deem 8 years between Adam and Eve's creation. How many years passed between Cain, Abel and the rest? Remember, his wife had to be of age to produce babies, or at least to be married.

There is a lot of information not given in Genesis chapter one through three.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Trust me ... You don't understand Hebrew poetry if you think the Pentateuch is primarily poetic. You might get some people on the BB to believe you, but you won't get anyone who knows Hebrew to believe you. There are characteristics of Hebrew poetry such as parallelism and the like that completely and utterly refute the notion that the Pentateuch is poetry.

 

Just because you can't or won't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

The song, "Amazing Grace" doesn't seem like prose to many, who have no concept of the English language, unless it is set to music...but that doesn't mean that it isn't prose or a song.

 

The reason it can't be seen is because it's not there. The Pentateuch has sections of poetry, such as the Song of Moses, or other bits and pieces, but as a whole it is historical narrative and legal code.

And with good reason. It isn't prose. It is poetry. Prose is ordinary speaking language. Poetry is the opposite of prose.