Adding to the words of God? Romans 1:3

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by franklinmonroe, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    Notice this verse in the KJV --
    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    Looking at the Greek of the Textus Receptus (Stephanus 1550, but there seems to be no significant variants here in any critical Greek text) I could NOT find support for the four consecutive English words "Jesus Christ our Lord". Yet, neither they are in italic typeface to indicate they have been inserted by the translators. There is no Iesous, Christos, hemon (commonly rendered as "our"), or Kyrios present in this verse but the Geneva also displays "Iesus Christ our Lord". Are these words somehow implied from the Greek? Are these words necessary for the English reader?

    Many other (mostly literal) versions do not add words here --
    that make mension of his sonne the which was begotte of the seed of David as pertayninge to the flesshe: (Tyndale)

    regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, (NIV)

    Of his sonne, which was made of the seede of Dauid after the fleshe: (Bishops')

    concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh (ESV)

    off his sonne, which was begotte of ye sede of Dauid after the flesh: (Coverdale)

    concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, (NASB)

    concerning His Son, (who is come of the seed of David according to the flesh, (Young's Literal)

    [1:2b] ...of his sone, [1:3] which is maad to hym of the seed of Dauid bi the flesch, (Wycliffe)

    concerning his Son (come of David's seed according to flesh, (Darby)
     
    #1 franklinmonroe, Jun 11, 2009
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  2. Tater77

    Tater77
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    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Westcott / Hort, UBS4 Variants with Concordance
    περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυὶδ κατὰ σάρκα,

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Strong's Numbers
    περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυεὶδ κατὰ σάρκα,

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Byzantine / Majority Text (1995) with Strong's Numbers
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαυιδ κατα σαρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
    περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ, τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυῒδ κατὰ σάρκα,

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents)
    περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαβὶδ κατὰ σάρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Greek NT: Westcott / Hort, UBS4 Variants
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαυιδ κατα σαρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαυιδ κατα σαρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed.
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαυειδ κατα σαρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαυιδ κατα σαρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550)
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαβιδ κατα σαρκα

    ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:3 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1894)
    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαβιδ κατα σαρκα


    Yep, pretty much. :thumbsup:
     
  3. Thermodynamics

    Thermodynamics
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    One interesting thing I noticed is that the Geneva and AV are word for word the same. It is pretty clear that the AV copied the Geneva (as was the case in many other spots). I wonder why? Is there an mss out there that reads that way or is this an editorial insertion?

    I have a 1598 Textus Receptus that I'll have to dig out. Good find Franklin!
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon
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    The words are found in verse 4 of many versions.

    The KJV translators merely rearranged Paul's long Greek sentence to make a more understandable English sentence.

    The Holman's Christian Standard Version does the same.

    concerning His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who was a descendant of David according to the flesh
    and was established as the powerful Son of God by the resurrection from the dead according to the Spirit of holiness.
    Romans 1:4 HCSB


    Rob
     
    #4 Deacon, Jun 11, 2009
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  5. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    Thank you! In the future, I'll look further into the surrounding verses.

    Obviously, this rearrangment has tripped-up several of us. I found some slightly improper comments, for example --
    "The prophecies regarding the coming of Messiah are very detailed. We looked at many of theseprophecies in Chapter Six. They all concern various aspects of the ministry of the eternal Son of God revealed in His full Name used by Paul in verse three. These prophecies are concerning “Jesus Christ our Lord.”
     
    #5 franklinmonroe, Jun 11, 2009
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  6. Deacon

    Deacon
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    You’re not the only one fooled, an eminent Greek scholar missed that one too.


    περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυὶδ κατὰ σάρκα,
    τοῦ ὁρισθέντος υἱοῦ θεοῦ ἐν δυνάμει κατὰ πνεῦμα ἁγιωσύνης ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν, Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν,
    Romans 1:3-4 NA27


    περι του υιου αυτου του γενομενου εκ σπερματος δαυιδ κατα σαρκα
    του ορισθεντος υιου θεου εν δυναμει κατα πνευμα αγιωσυνης εξ αναστασεως νεκρων ιησου χριστου του κυριου ημων
    Romans 1:3-4 Westcott-Hort GNT1881

    Rob
     
  7. Tater77

    Tater77
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    OK, I see what happened there.

    I don't see the need for the move, but I see it there now.
     

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