After the Rapture

How can you say that there are only 144,000 that will be saved? There is no basis for that. It clearly states in Revelation 7:14 that these are the souls that came out of great tribulation. The great tribulation is the same one referred to by Jesus in Matthew, the church has not seen this kind of tribulation before, so great that if it wasn't shortened, no flesh would be saved.

We aren't talking about the church being persecuted or believers going through their own personal tribulations.

 

Read the book of Revelation in its entirety. Only 144,000 are said to be sealed, to be said to be redeemed from the earth...

All others repented not but continued to blaspheme God both day and night.

Surely you do not believe that saved people will blaspheme God?

 

As little as you know about me, you should know that I don't believe a truly born again person would blaspheme God. Come on now!!!


Give me the passages of scripture that proves to you, that there will be none other than the 144,000 sealed/saved.

I still stand by the fact that the 144,000 will be evangelists sent to continue spreading the Gospel throughout the lands, that is when the Great Commission truly takes place. An amount that cannot be numbered according to John. So those people are not the 144,000.

 

==You did not given an answer. All you did was make assertions without any evidence (etc). I asked you to discuss why you believe the textus receptus is correct in leaving out the definite article (tes) in Revelation 7:14, you never answered that. All you have done so far is make bold assertions and call one translation of the Word of God garbage. In short, you have not engaged in a scholarly Christian discussion.

==Since the oldest and best manuscripts contain the definite article and since the context supports the use of the definite article I think it is safe to conclude that John used the definite article when he pinned this book on Patmos. There is a period of great tribulation, a time of distress, (Matt 24:21, Dan 12:1, Rev 3:10) and that is what John is refering to in Rev 7:14. Revelation 7:14 comes after the period of great distress/tribulation discribed in Rev 6. The great crowd in 7:14 come out of a specific period the text never says, or implies, that these are all the redeemed of all of the ages (or the church). The text is clear that this huge group John sees are those who come out of this period that John called "the great tribulation".

For those reasons the KJV's translation of this text is wrong. Keep in mind that ALL other major translations translate this phrase "the Great Tribulation", including the NKJV.

==Not only does Rev 7:14 refute your error, but other passages such as Rev 14:6,12-13, Matt 24:13-14,21-28, Dan 12:1, etc, do as well.

Will you provide a real reply or will you just make more of your assertions?

 

Just because the newer translatiions say their sources are older and better does not make it true.

 

==I asked, "Will you provide a real reply or will you just make more of your assertions?". Sadly you have not given a real, meaningful reply. All you have done is stated another assertion. You avoided my arguments and asserted something without backing it up. I ask again: Will you provide a real reply or will you just make more of your assertions?

 

Revelation 7:14 (Geneva Bible, 1587 Edition):
And I saide vnto him, Lord, thou knowest.
And he saide to me, These are they,
which came out of great tribulation,
and haue washed their long robes,
and haue made their long robes
white in the blood of the Lambe.

If your Bible doesn't say 'long robes' here
you might have a second rate modern version

\o/ Blessed be the Lamb - Messiah Yeshua!! \o/

The 124k servants who are sealed
are from the Church Age ended by the
pretribulation rapture, are sealed in heaven,
serve Jesus personally on earth during the
Tribulation period.

 

Ed,

Are you deflecting? You usually stand for the KJV1611. It does not say 'long robes'.

 

.

==Why don't you stand for the Word of God instead of one english translation? Again, back to the other issue about Rev 7:14, Will you provide a real reply to my earlier reply or will you just make more of your assertions?

 

One translation is the Word of God... all others only contain the Word of God and watered down doctrine.

 

==More baseless, unproven, unBiblical assertions on your part. Again will you provide a real reply to my earlier reply or will you just make more of your assertions? Yes or no.

 

Item corrected:

 

I'm guessing you are a big Peter Ruckman fan, right ?

 

Hi Ed.:wavey: Hope things are going well for you in Oklahoma.

What, would you say, is the purpose of those sealed Jews ? Is it to preach, to reach the lost, or more like a last representation of Christ on earth ?

 

I have never read a Peter Ruckman book, nor have I ever heard one of his sermons.

 

One nice thing about the flood - I get to stay home and type

When the last Gentile of the Church Age who is going to
get saved gets saved, then the Lord will turn His
eyes back on saving Israel: The 7-year Tribulation Period.
The 144 Thousand are Messanic Jews saved during
the Church Age who are set aside IN HEAVEN
for special service during the Tribulation Period on Earth.

 

Where are you getting that these 144,000 are in heaven and then sent back to earth? Just curious as I've never heard this before.

 

I guess I'm asking you if salvation will be available during the tribulation. There are as many different opinions as there are verses.

 

News to me as well, I would like to see the supporting scriptures for this one.