Afterlife in the OT

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Mike McK, Dec 3, 2002.

  1. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    I'm having a conversation with somebody on Jesusfreakhideout.com who claims to be a Christian but it's becoming more and more evident that she's not.

    In the course of trying to disprove the Bible, she stated that there was no belief in the afterlife taught by the OT.

    We know that David said that he would see his dead child in Heaven and we know that Enoch and Elijah were caught up to Heaven so I know that this isn't true but the while subject has really got my curiousity up.

    Can anybody recommend any passages of scripture or any outside sources that discuss views of the afterlife, specifically Heaven, in the Old Testament?

    Mike

    ((edited for clarity))

    [ December 03, 2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Mike McK ]
     
  2. Johnv

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    I know that the OT Jews believed that upon death, your soul went to a place called "sheol", or the place of the dead. It was where dead sould rested. It wasn't Heaven per se, like the NT view of Heaven. But it was an afterlife. Also, they believe that several OT figures went to be with the Lord directly, presumably in what we call heaven now.

    I will have to do a little OT digging to get more info. When I do, I will post it. Perhaps someone else can expound as well.
     
  3. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
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    Mike

    Some believed in an afterlife, some didn't. Just like today. As I understand it, and I am subject to error -- the Jewish sect called the Sadduces did not believe in any afterlife, while the Essenes and Pharisees did. What that afterlife entailed in the view of those that believed in such, I am not competent to say, but tend toward Johnv's thoughts on the subject.

    Hope it helps.

    Jeff
     
  4. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    Thanks John,

    Here's what she said,

    "The Old Testament does not include a belief in "heaven or a future time of reward and continued life. The only way a man could live after his death was through his children seed (sic)"

    Mike
     
  5. wjrighter

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    2sam.14:14;ps.23:4;ps.116:15;pr.14:32;job.30:28,
    see if any of these help.........bill
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

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    Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    I don't know if this helps. No mention of Heaven, but definately hell. I believe Heaven in the O/T is an ambiguous term, not meaning our eternal home. I could be wrong, and expect that others think I am wrong.....

    Now this....

    John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 in my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    Perhaps this means Jesus is preparing heaven, and when it is ready, he will call us home.

    Hope I'm not too off-topic.
     
  7. Jim1999

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    There were many conceptions about afterlife in Hebrew thought down through the ages. For some thoughts we go to profane Jewish historians such as Josephus. To some, Abraham's Bosom was a place of waiting..no more than three days..they must have been waiting to go somewhere, and one can deduce that they are going to an afterlife. Why a place such as Abraham's bosom if there is not thought of an afterlife?

    Then we have the declaration of Job (19:26f) "And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself; and mine eyes shall behold, and not another....."

    It is evident that Job sees something beyond the flesh and it is a reality and not mythical. This reality is only confirmed in the New Testament.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. hrhema

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    Jesus in dealing with the religious leaders who did not believe in a resurrection or an afterlife asked them if they had not heard it said that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He then proceeded to tell them that God is not the God of the Dead but of the living. THis should settle the matter. How could God be the God of the living with us knowing these three were dead if there was no after life?
     
  9. blackbird

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    Moses writes in Genesis 25: 8, "Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years, AND WAS GATHERED TO HIS PEOPLE."(emphasis mine)

    Man, when you die--that's what God Almighty does--whether you live your saved life on that side of the Old Testament where Abraham lived or over here where we are in the New Testament!! When you die--He's gonna come and "gather" you up--and you "outta here" man!!

    YOur friend,
    Blackbird
     
  10. John3v36

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    One of the oldest books in the Bible says:

    Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
    26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
     
  11. mountainrun

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    Good luck, Mike.
    A quick search on Google {Jewish afterlife belief}
    reveals a myriad of different point of view, including the view that belief in the afterlife was a late Jewish developement.
    If you can't prove your point to your opponent {and that is exactly what she is} from the Word of God, you are wasting your time in debate.
    Been there-done that.
    Arguing with people like her is like trying to poke a worm back into it's hole.
    Her only goal is to win arguments and she will not let the facts get in her way.

    MR
     
  12. mountainrun

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    Never mind, Mike. I read some of your exchange with Eliza Day. You're doing a pretty fair job and she doesn't seem as argumentative as I believed from your post.

    MR
     
  13. Ben W

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    One of the books that can help you get an understanding of the Jewish view of things is the book of Enoch. If she is looking for an alternative idea, this book refers back to the Old Testament constantly.

    Jeremiah 33:22 states that "the Host of Heaven cannot be numbered. Strongs no 6635 Hebrew - tsaba, tsaw-baw, which means mass of people. The Old Testament constantly refers to the Host of heaven. maybe you could encourage your friend to to a word study on the word Host.

    When we look at the Old Testament it is important to remember that our English language does not adequatley explain their patterns and custom. We need to study deeper with a Hebrew dictionary. Terms that are common to us are used differently in the Old Testament.
     
  14. Terry_Herrington

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    I have always thought it strange that a complete understanding of Heaven and Hell is not taught in the Old Testament. The New Testament is full of references to eternal bliss in Heaven and this awful place called Hell. However, if hell is indeed a place of never ending torment, it seems like this point should have been made clear to people in the OT as well as in the NT.

    For a person to live their entire life and then suddenly, after death, to discover that they have been eternally condemned to a place that they had no idea even existed seems somewhat wrong. I do not have all the answers, but this is a question that has concerned me for many years.
     

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