Against Homeschooling?

Being as "whether or not I homeschool my child" is not a Scriptural absolute, it is thus a matter of conscience. So, I do think the Priesthood of the Believer applies, and I stand by my remarks.

 

come on, aj, there's no need for that kind of stuff on this board.

count to ten, then post....

 

You're right, I apologize

AJ

 

Sooo, you compare all homeschoolers to those few you have contact with? Talk about limited experience.

That's funny (as in a strange coincidence). I took all three in high school and participated in my college chorus group. My own daughter is currently in Spanish and participates in the high school theatre group. Believe me, I keep up with what is going on. It's enough to make me want to snatch her out, but part of educating a child is allowing them to learn to deal with the world and minister to them.

We didn't force our children into homeschooling. My son's health forced us into homeschooling because the district didn't want to pay for the services required and it was becoming increasingly obvious that he was falling behind more every year we kept him in public school. This is not a slur on the teachers. Public schools are simply not set up to deal with a chronically ill child who literally misses half the school days (86 full days last year not counting days he left early or came in late). They did try, though we had our battles.

It's the same here. On the days I attend, I am generally the only member of the public there. I agree parents should pay better attention.

Now if you want to rant, rant on folks who public school. The vast majority shove their kid out of the car in the morning and never darken the school house door. I've seen it over and over. Remember, I both public school and homeschool so I have experience on both sides of the fence. These parents tell me that it is the schools job to educate their kids not their own. Huh, I thought God told parents to "train up a child".

See, here is one of those things we agree on. But this holds true whether or one homeschools so why the fuss over homeschooling?

Again, you are coloring all homeschoolers by those few you've had experience with. But here's the amazing thing, after suffering this sort of condemnation over your educational choices for your daughter, you are still willing to condemn others who make decisions differently. Can you see your own double standard?

Hmmm, most I know have religious convictions about homeschooling, but I've yet to run across one who claims it commanded by scripture. This perhaps is a topic for a new thread.

You could just quote a portion that you believe supports your opinion that parents shouldn't homeschool. However, I'll need some reading material as summer comes on, so this might be an interesting read.

You know, I think I was. Not only, but perhaps my typos point out the inadequacies of my public school teachers. Or it could be that as I don't consider message boards to be formal documents, I type the casual way I speak.

Yeah, I'd like to see this in action!

You know, this is at least the second time you have said this. Do you/did you view teaching as a calling of God only to decide that God must not have been calling since it appeared that He wasn't providing enough in salary to sustain you the way you expected to be sustained? Did you give up pastoring for the same reason? Do you believe that owning a home is the end all/be all sign of God's blessing? Do you believe that those who don't own homes are somehow unsuccessful in life? Just what is the significance of owning a home to you?

 

You are right. It is the laziness and complacenecy of both the church and society.

You failed to read what I wrote about the fact that my daughter is both educated at home and in school. She works far more than most any home schooled or public schooled child. She is highly motivated and reads extensively. Her English skills are incredible.

I grew up on a dairy farm and worked about six hours each day in addition to going to school. When I went to college I worked about 35 hours each week and near the time I graduated I had my own business going.

It is not so much the fuss over homeschooling but the idea that one or the other is exclusive of the other. Why not do both at the same time?

Matthew 28:19, 20 is a command and yet few churches and Christians take full responsibility for making it happen. The I Will is far more important than the IQ. Too many parents complain about things they have little or no control over but they fail to train their children to make disciples.

Without giving you a quote the fact is that the churches are growing the most where there is the most adversity. In those same locations the Christians are also the strongest. That includes children.

I lived in housing that would not allow children and those which did were much more than I could afford.

I gave up pastoring because of all of the fighting in the SBC and the fact that the last church I pastored had a 25 year practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to come and preach. When I put a stop to that, the deacons did not like it. The majority were not even reading their Bible but claimed to be Christians. When I confronted them about their example a few got mad rather than doing what they should. They built their new building but are dying. The church grew from 90 to about 220 in almost two years. The deacons started complaining that they did not know people and could not find a park place. We went from one to two and were looking at three services. The same thing happened to another man I know in another state. His church grew from 75 to almost 600. The old timers did not like it that the new people had just become Christians and the church was dramatically changing. I also realized that I was wasting a lot of time dealing with problems rather than making disciples. I prefer to make disciples rather than deal with those who want to make trouble. Jesus said to let the dead bury the dead.

Perhaps you do not know that the number of those pastoring churches after 10 years out of seminary is close to zero. Within six months after I quit pasturing I met with 20 college students and young working people each week for Bible study and discipleship. When I met each one of them, they were doing nothing in a church. Some had even stopped going to church. Today all of them are living for Christ. One had been in what I would call a Christian cult for 14 years. Another had been playing his instrument in bars and near a divorce. Today he leads the music in a church. Another lady had been a stripper. Today she is married and has children.

I will not own any home when I am dead. So I prefer to do things that will last for eternity. However while I am living I prefer to use wisdom in doing things. It is not always wise to buy a home and it is not always wise to not buy a home.

When I watch other people come from other countries who do not know the language and work hard to be successful I do not have to ask many questions why they are making it and others are not. When I was ten years old I knocked on doors during the summer asking people if they had work I could do. I got quite an education doing that. I saw the difference between the lazy and motivated. All I had to do was look in their home when they opened the door. Now parents give all kinds of excuses why their kids cannot work during the summer, sit home and watch TV.

Laziness is in our society and in the church. If a kid gets three or four hours of homework a night the parents complain. If the kid does poorly the parents complain. Parents complain if the pastor expects them to share their faith and walk with God.

 

Did the deacons ever find a "park place" , professor?

AJ

 

I'm not against homeschooling, I'm against people that think we Christians that send our kids to a public school are not doing what is smart for raising our kids up Christian and sending them to a secular school is somehow un- Christain. Or that they are raising better kids by doing so.

 

Even though my wife and I home school, I agree. It's our choice as parents. And, I extend the same courtesy to other parents no matter what they choose. :thumbs:

 

They did. He is a nice guy.

 

In the little town I live in, we have a very small high school. No gang activity, no problems with weapons, ect. But the high school constantly has drug busts and someone arrested for sexual assault.

In light of this, we have decided to homeschool, but I dont think everyone who puts their kid in public school is bad or unchristian. I think it can be done for the wrong reasons though.

For instance, how many times had you heard a mother say "I cant wait till little Johnny starts school so I can get a job and buy......whatever"

Or, "I cant wait till summer is over so little Johnny can go back to school and get out of my hair"

Most parents that make these statements dont take any interest in their child's education, they just want a babysitter.

AJ

 

Sorry, I couldnt help it, I had to correct the professor....LOL

Maybe thats why all my profs passed me, not cause I earned it but because they didnt want me back!!!!

AJ

 

I have seen homeschoolers who have done a great job, and others that were absolutely horrible. Even in my own family, I had one sister who is great at it, and the other who went down in flames - fortunately she recognized her weakness and sent her kids back to school where they are doing well.

We chose the christian school route for our kids and have been happy. We have many in our church who are raising good, well adjusted strong christian kids in the public school, some like us who are in private christian schools and a strong contingent of home schoolers.

My only real problem with the home schoolers is that there seems to be a pervasive attitude that if it is right for them, it is right for everybody

 

I'm going to color code cause I'm tired of fixing quotes.

The same sort of stuff happens in our mid size high school (about 2000 students total, maybe not quite that many). It happened when I was there. My eldest is firm in her faith and after some discussion we allowed her the decision to continue going or stay home. She also has some of the same health issues that my son has, plus one or two unique to herself. That played a role in the decision as well. She wanted to continue and since the high school is much, much better at dealing with chronically ill children (she missed 46 days last year) we allowed it. She maintains a high grade point average in spite of her issues and she is the one her friends look to when problems arise. These issues by themselves in high school aren't enough for me to pull mine out of our high school. Other high schools have horrible safety issues, which might make me change my mind were we in those districts.

The problem here was the middle school. Not only could they not deal with my kids health issues, but the stuff that happens in the high school also happens there. Unwed mothers, the school being locked down while the drug dogs are brought through, fights, you name it, we experienced it. Add to that teachers, encouraged by the administrators, who actively sought any reason to intimidate or humiliate the kids and then would turn around and lie about it, well, that is enough by itself, to keep my youngest from ever experiencing that middle school.

They won't miss me either. I was the parent who was always there, walking through the halls in the mornings before school or the afternoons after school, talking to the kids, the teachers, even the custodians. But, for all that I was there and for all my offers to help in any way I could, I was rarely asked. Why? Because they perferred "help" from parents who didn't question their methods or complain about how they talked to the students.

Before Gb complains that I left the school without a witness, the vice principal and about 20% of the teachers there attend my own church.

This is a big part of why our middle school is the way the way it is. I cannot tell you how many parents who have told me, "oh, my child doesn't need me interfering anymore. they're old enough to deal with school on their own" But what that translates into is "I've raised them this far, they know right from wrong, I can go do what I want to do for a change. the school will keep them safe and take care of their education too." Then these same parents wonder why beer was found in little Jonny's locker. Well, they handed over the keys to their children's hearts and minds to other children and school administrators who are not and shouldn't be in the business of raising children.

Just a small rant. sorry.

 

Maybe those people are hard as a rock but God can soften their hearts. It is not your job to soften their hearts but to use wisdom in dealing with them. Too often people spend time talking to people about God before they talk to God about people.

How much time did you pray for each teacher before you said one word? How much time did you spend serving them before you said anything? Sometimes it takes many years to win people before they will ever listen. More is accomplished through prayer and God's hand than anything man does. When God opens the door for you to speak you will not be able to miss it.

2 Chron 7:13, "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

There have been times when I prayed for someone who I thought was quite hard and God opened the door so wide that it was impossible to not speak because I was asked. A few years ago I went on a trip with my doctoral advisor who thinks Christians are what he called idiots. For one hour he told me what he thought of the Christians on TV. I told him that Jesus would have agreed with him. He looked surprised. For one hour I listened and hardly said anything. For the next two hours he asked questions and listened to me talk about Christ. We have had some discussions since.

When you pray and watch God work it is incredible what you will see God do.

 

You said in response to my post, "The plan is the same for everyone. It is found in Matthew 28:19, 20."

This is the plan for spreading the gospel, for winning people to Christ. This is the plan we use to guide our family as well, as should all Christians. HOW or WHERE we do that is up to the Lord and his plan for our lives. Our children do not sit in our house all day with no access to the world around them.

You said,
"Nobody is perfectly able to educate their children. My daughter is taking classes that I know little or nothing about and I teach at a university."

No public school teacher is perfectly able to educate children either. Even YOU are not perfectly able to educate anyone.

"Of course parents can educate their children in a limited way but to say it is biblical it not historically true. In the OT and NT the rabbis educated children."

Where were the young ladies educated? Where were Jacob and Esau educated? I don´t really see a general education system described in my Bible. Is there one in yours? I see verses that God has used to speak to MY heart to tell ME what I should do with MY children. I don´t claim that homeschooling is for everyone or that it is God´s will for everyone. I can only speak for my OWN family. By the way, we are not Jewish so the rabbi thing wouldn´t work anyway.

_____________________________________

This will be my last comment on this particular thread. I find my blood pressure increasing by your haughty arrogant comments. I am sure you have a wonderfully gifted daughter that loves the Lord and shares her faith and lives her life to the glory of God. The same could be said about my daughter. I resent the fact that you seem to have a habit of assuming that all home schoolers are lazy and are not soul winners. No, you have not come out and said this but you have implied it many times in your posts. In fact you have implied many insulting things in your posts by assuming you know us all.

I quote:
"How can we expect our kids to be learners if we are not?"

I do not think you will find anything in my post that suggested I am not continuing to learn. I think you will find the opposite to be true. I may not have a digree but I have continued my education in many ways. I don´t think I need to list my abilites and my accomplishments or that of my children to justify why I am obeying the Lord`s will for our family.

I quote:
"How can we expect our kids to make disciples if we are not?"

Once again, I don´t believe you will find anything in my posts that would suggest that I and my family do not practice soul winning and discipling. Why would you just assume something like this?

I quote:
If we gripe and complain about anything we cannot expect our kids to take it seriously.

Again, would you please point out the griping and complaining in my post? Seems to me I read a few complaints in your post about your denomination and some preachers you have heard. Does that mean you do not expect your children to take your religion very seriously?

Since this is the debate forum you will have to continue this debate with the others on here. I for one don´t think any of us are going to change your mind, so I am out of here! :wavey:

 

Okay so that was my second to the last comment. :0)

JerryL,
I just want to say that I too am sick of some homeschoolers who have that attitude. If you have your kids in the public school and that is where God wants them to be, then I think that is great! I know many young people who are in the public school and are leaders, and soul winners, and have done a wonderful job of being the light in their school and have made a difference.

 

I didn't read beyond this point yet - I will in a minute but I wanted to respond -

I don't WANT the State taking it upon itself to oversee my children's education. The 'State' exerts too much control over our lives as it is, and I should just sit back and expect it to also regulate what, how, when, and where my kids are taught?

Nope, no way. You remember that in California there's a judge who has decided it's unconstitutional for parents to homeschool? .......that's what the State thinks.

Next year our kids will be homeschooled.

 

They did the same thing when parents failed to educate their children and mandated compulsory education.

 

yes I know.....the whole idea of federally-run public schools is unconstitutional in my opinion.

 

I have not read all the posts on this thread, but let me make a few comments anyway.

When I got married, I vowed that I would never put any of my children in the public school system. I knew what went on in the public school system. It's underlying religion is the religion of humanism based on the theory of evolution which is taught as fact. Drugs are prevalent, and so is immorality. There are many reasons why I would never expose my children to the public school system.

Besides that we ended up being a missionary in an Islamic nation for a number of years. To be indoctrinated into the required course of Islamiat is just as bad or worse than humanism. And the environment would not be that good either. We were forced to home-school.

With that introduction let me also say that home-schooling is not for everyone. Not everyone can do it. Not everyone has the necessary skills to teach their children what they ought to learn in a school curriculum. Many mothers do not have much of an education themselves. The education of a child is the parents' responsibility. The parent may delegate that responsibility to another person or organization, but ultimately the responsibility still falls on the parent. If the child goes astray because the parent has allowed his child to be fed the humanistic garbage of the public school, then the fault lies with the parent.

The only other option, other than home-schooling, is a Christian school. If there were no good church in my area I would either start one or go to an area where there was one. Likewise with education. If there was no good opportunity to educate my children, and I was unable to do it myself, I would go to a place where there would be a Christian School. I would not feed my children to the dogs, so to speak.

Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

The only thing a person can take to heaven is their children.
Make sure you do.