Age of Accountability

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by ColoradoFB, Jul 10, 2003.

  1. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, I have my views, but I would like yours. Some people say if a child dies before reaching this so-called "age of accountability", they go straight to heaven. Yet the bible teaches that the only way to heaven is through faith in Jesus. Is the Age of Accountability just a tool to make those who have lost a child feel better, or is this a second way to heaven? Or is it something else?
     
  2. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never found anything in the Bible about an age of accountability, but that doesn't present a problem. Your perceived conflict probably stems from assumptions you are making about what it means that Jesus is the only way.

    If God chooses to take an unborn aborted baby to heaven, then that baby is still saved by grace and mercy through Jesus. Therefore, when Jesus says He is the way, the truth and the life, and that no one comes to the Father but by Him, then it is still perfectly true for that baby.
     
  3. Tentmaker

    Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/tentmaker.gif>

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems that King David had confidence in God saving an innocent child, cf 2Samuel 12:23.
     
  4. fgm

    fgm
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Old Testament is a model and preview of things to come.The children of the Israelites under 20 years old got to enter into the promised land with Joshua but their parents did not.The parents were involved in the worship of the golden calf and wishing to go back to Egypt.
     
  5. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, you are saying that the baby did not have to make a decision for Jesus to be saved. Given that logic, would you say abortion is a good thing, since the large majority never accept Christ? This means the aborted child is assured a place in heaven, rather than risk an eternity in hell. How does this slippery slope end?

    BTW, my assumptions about what it means for Jesus to be the only way...could that not also be true for others than babies? Retarded people, or even anyone? Could not God show the same grace on every person on earth?

    My assumption is the classic Baptist position on how one is saved...by making a decision for Jesus.

    I am interested in hearing your views on the above points.
     
  6. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    THe "age of Accountability" is not taught in the bible, it's just man-made theology.
     
  7. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Correct, and right to the point. The error behind the foundation for age of accountability is the necessity of a free will decision to be saved. One reasons that if one must make a decision for Christ in order to be saved, then the only people who can be saved are those who reache an age or state where the decision is possible. Everyone else falls into some other category, hence the "age of accountability" theory is necessary to have mercy on those who are incapable of making such a decision.

    But it is not our job to decide who is going to receive mercy. That is up to God. So our attempt to insert "age of accountability" into the Bible is simply a direct result of our attempt to insert "free will decision for Christ" into the Bible, and neither belongs there. Jesus simply says that He is the way, the Truth and the Life - no one comes to the Father except by Him. It's as simple as that - we don't need to add decisions, age of accountability, or anything else to it.

    You can create a slippery slope for any scenario. They are all meaningless. The Bible says murder is wrong. It doesn't stop being wrong simply because salvation doesn't occur the way you think it should according to human reasoning.

    Yes, He could.

    If you're implying free will without the enabling power of God, that really isn't classic at all. Baptist history is grounded in reformed theology, which is one of predestination and election. It assumes that no one can come to Jesus unless enabled.

    On the other hand, I want to stress that I certainly do believe we make a decision for Jesus. We simply would never make any such decision of our own free will, because our hearts are turned against Him. Only after God changes our hearts do we wish to make any such decision. Since it is up to God whether or not to elect someone - either through changing his/her heart or simply electing them into heaven - no age of accountability is necessary.

    But we do make the decision, so in a manner of speaking, you're correct.
     
  8. Caretaker

    Caretaker
    Expand Collapse
    <img src= /drew.gif>

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    God sends the children of the children of Israel into the land because
    they did not have enough understanding to reject God. -- Deu 1:39
    Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your
    children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and
    evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall
    possess it.
    There is a time in life when a person does not receive the FULL
    measure of the consequences of wrong doing. It is in childhood, where
    understanding is being developed. Isa 7:16 For before the child shall
    know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou
    abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

    Unborn children and yes aborted children are not capable of doing right
    or wrong and are there fore not culpable. Rom 9:11 For the children
    being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, ... Now,
    here is the real crux of the matter: If the dead will be judged in Rev
    20:11-15 according to "their works," how can those who have no
    knowledge of good or evil (infants, young children) and those who have
    not yet done any "good or evil" (the unborn) be held accountable for their
    lack of understanding?
    Understanding the w-o-r-d-s of the law was necessary in the giving
    and teaching of the law. Neh 8:2 And Ezra the priest brought the law
    before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could
    hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
    God does not require children to understand doctrine and doctrine is
    necessary for redemption. Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge?
    and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned
    from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be
    upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a
    little, and there a little:

    James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and
    doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    John 3:

    16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  9. showard93

    showard93
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    0
    I beleive that the age of accountability is different for each child. I think it is an age that children know right from wrong and know what being saved is all about.
     
  10. Felix

    Felix
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very well put.
    Amen to all this!!

    Felix
     
  11. JesusisGod2

    JesusisGod2
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just a thought -- isn't the jewish celebration of barmitzpha (However you spell) a celebration that the child reaches an age of accoutability? to where they can read the scriptures and even share thier insights with the elders?

    Just curious!
     
  12. Jeffrey H

    Jeffrey H
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    1
    I cannot find "age of accountability" or any other wording for it in the Bible.
     
  13. Caretaker

    Caretaker
    Expand Collapse
    <img src= /drew.gif>

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jeffrey H Junior Member Member # 6438 posted July 11, 2003 01:45 PM I cannot find "age of accountability" or any other wording for it in the Bible.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Neither do we see the word “Grandfather: in the Bible, or the word “Bible” in the Bible, but it does not mean that the concept is not there. The concept of the necessity for understanding to be there before one is held accountable, IS present in scripture.

    Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge?
    and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned
    from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be
    upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a
    little, and there a little:

    James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and
    doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    John 3:

    16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    The condemnation of the wicked is for their rejection of Christ.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  14. stevenlynch

    stevenlynch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't find "bible" in the bible

    can't find "trinity" either.

    can't find "abortion"
    "gambling"


    What's your point Texas?
     
  15. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Age of accountability is a nebulous term we use to cover the human compassionate understanding of what we think God would do given a certain circumstance. In this case, a child who dies who has not reached an age of understanding, whether by physical age or infirmity. The latter may include those with a mental incapacity for understanding at any age.

    It is, however, God's prerogative and His sovereign right to deal with men as He sees fit. Even faith is the gift of God, and a gift remains a gift whether it is received or not. It must be noted, however, that all human analogies fall short of divine understanding, and this does not preclude our receiving the gift of God in salvation. This isour only outward sign of the inner grace...that we accept the gift and show the fruit of the Spirit.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    Chapter and verse? Jim's understanding of God 1:1
     
  16. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    When Is a Human Being Accountable Before God?
    Rom 1:19-20

    Introductory Thoughts

    · A troubling issue for many
    · I don’t want to be misunderstood, so right up front, here is what I understand the Bible to teach:

    * All human beings are born sinners
    * God reveals Himself to us in Nature, through His Word, in the workings of divine Providence, and directly through the leading of the Spirit of God.
    * God does not hold a human being accountable until and unless they are developed enough to discern the attributes of God in nature
    - God takes care of the unborn, the infant, the very young child, and those with serious mental developmental difficulties, in a way which He does not specify, but which must involve the Blood of Christ and justification in Christ.
    * God holds human beings accountable whether they have heard the Gospel or not, but those who have never heard have a lesser degree of accountability.
    - But there is no age of accountability. Accountability does not depend upon the calendar, it depends upon the person and their circumstances

    1. Background: The Basic Truths

    a. God

    (1) God is absolute, and whatever He says is true
    (2) Whatever God does is right
    (3) God’s will and justice may not be challenged by man—Rom 9:18-20
    (4) God is merciful and loving: He defines what that means

    b. Man and sin

    (1) All are sinners from birth—Ps 58:3
    (2) There is only one way to salvation, no exceptions, no excuses—Jn 14:6, Acts 4:12
    (3) All human beings are incapable of acceptable moral or spiritual understanding, whatever our age or ability—1 Cor 2:14
    (4) There is nothing in us or of us or from us which is acceptable to God – Rom 7:18
    (5) Our spiritual and moral inability is no excuse before God

    c. The problems:
    (1) Well-meaning people who inject human ideas
    (2) Mean-spirited people who inject human ideas
    (3) Men who make doctrine without Bible warrant
    (4) The Bible does not have a lot to say on this (but it has enough)

    d. What are God’s ways of revealing Himself?

    (1) Natural Revelation (Ps 19:1-6)
    (2) Written Revelation (Ps 19:7-12)
    (3) The ways of Providence—Acts 17:24-26—the acts of God in history
    (4) Direct revelation—“thus saith the Lord”
    (5) Through the convicting, comforting, witnessing, and leading of the Holy Spirit—John 14, 15, 16; Rom 8:14-17

    2. What is accountability?

    a. It consists of God holding a human being responsible before Him.
    b. The Bible uniformly teaches that we will give an account to God.

    (1) All will give account—Mat 12:36-37
    (2) Believers will account to God for their Christian walk, at the Judgment Seat of Christ—Rom 14:10-12
    (3) The Lost of the world give account at the Great White Throne—Rev 20:11-15.

    3. What is a person accountable to God for?

    a. Every person who is accountable is accountable in some way for The Law—Rom 3:19-20

    (1) Define Law = God’s declared will for how we are to live and how we are to worship Him
    (2) Several uses of Law in Romans

    (a) Law as in Torah—Rom 7

    Rom 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.""

    (b) Law as in The Bible in general

    (c) Law as the Gospel
    Rom 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

    (d) Law as in Conscience—Rom 2:16
    (e) Law as a general principle, whether written or not—Rom 3:27 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith."


    (3) The Jews (and now the Christians) have God’s law written down
    (4) The unreached (then and now) have the Law written on the table of the heart.

    (a) You find the shadow of the Ten Commandments in the legal codes of most societies
    (b) There is a sense of right and wrong in many societies that have never heard the Gospel

    b. Every person is accountable for recognizing The Person of God as demonstrated by the natural realm—Rom 1:19-20—the marvelous complexity of nature, for instance.

    c. Every person is accountable for the Gospel (if they have heard it).

    4. When is a person accountable to God?

    a. When they are old enough and sharp enough that God says they should be able to detect His Attributes in nature.

    b. Rom 1:19-20

    5. Questions that trouble people

    a. What about those who die unaccountable (the unborn, the infant, the very young child, and those with serious mental developmental difficulties)?

    (1) They do NOT fall under the category of those who are “without excuse.”
    (2) God has saved the unborn and the very small in the past:
    (a) John The Baptist—Luke 1:15
    (b) Jeremiah—Jer 1:4-5
    (c) David—Ps 22:10
    (d) David’s first child by Bathsheba

    (3) God will always do what is right—the unaccountable are safe.


    b. What about those who have never heard the Gospel?

    (1) If they are among those without excuse, they are without excuse—Rom 1:19-20
    (2) Their responsibility will extend to what they did know: Luke 12:36-48
    (3) Many cases have been cited of those ready to hear.

    6. The Real Question: What about YOU?

    a. If you are capable of understanding any of the things we have spoken of today, YOU are accountable to God!
    b. You are accountable for the revelation of God in nature
    c. You are accountable for the revelation of God’s Law in your conscience
    d. You are accountable for the revelation of God’s Law in the Bible
    e. You are accountable for the revelation of the Gospel
     
  17. Graceforever

    Graceforever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great Idea brother….. Some other thoughts….


    We know this also, that Jesus, at a very young age of twelve, was found teaching the law to grown men in the Temple, but he left with his mother, and was accountable unto them until his time came… Jesus said, “wasn’t it time that I was about my father’s business,” still he went with his folks….

    Also, the Jews had a law, or something, that wouldn’t permit anyone to teach, until, they were thirty years of age, which was the age of Jesus when he started his earthly ministry….

    Someone else had the idea that kids are not accountable as long as they’re in the rule of their father…. Until the time comes when your earthly father thinks that you’re of age to be accountable…. Then he is to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife….

    Today, we know the law of the land about juveniles, but today juveniles are being tried as men…. Because of necessity, we are trying kids as adults, and violence is waxing worse…..

    Timothy was told not to let anyone despise his youth, which some believed it to be 40 years of age…..

    My favorite, you will know yourself when you are accountable, your conscience will bear you witness…. Some are young, but some are pretty old, and still have need of milk…. Personally, I wasn’t convicted until I was in my early twenties…. I didn’t even realize the consequences of my actions until I fell under conviction….. In contrast, my daughter was twelve years old when she was baptized…. Very interesting question…..
     
  18. Trotter

    Trotter
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/6412.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Food for thought...

    Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
    Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
    Rom 2:14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    Rom 2:15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);
    (ASV, e-sword)

    A baby, unborn infant, a very young child. All of these have not had the opportunity to sin, correct? How can one of these, who has not committed sin, be condemned to hell?

    Rom 5:18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.
    (ASV, e-sword)

    Many use this verse to state that ALL (any age) who do not personally choose to accept Christ go to hell. Question: why must we accept Christ as Savior? Answer: He is the only acceptable sacrifice that can pay the penalty of our sins. Where there is no sin, there will be no sacrifice.

    Along the same strand, one may ask about those who have never heard of Jesus Christ. The before noted Scripture (Romans 2:12-15) also stands for this situation. Man is judged by the law that God places in the heart of every man. When a man violates this law, he condemns himself before God, and stands in need of salvation. So how can one who has never sinned be held accountable for what they have never done?

    If it seems like I am a little heated about this subject, it is because I am. My wife and I lost two children (one before birth, one at three days) [​IMG] . I have struggled long and hard over this particular subject in order to settle in my own mind and heart.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  19. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trotter,

    God bless you and your wife. Your losses are deep and painful, I know. Your children are with our Lord -- he said the little ones are His. He meant that. That's going to be some reunion you two get to have with them in heaven!

    Please remember, that even if they did, through some incredible means, sin, Jesus was the one sacrifice for all sins always, including the unknown ones.
     
  20. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trotter, my deepest sympathies go out to you and your wife. I cannot imagine what you have gone through with this, but do know that I, and many others, care.

    I would also add, do not be troubled over this. Any God worth worshipping would not condemn an innocent baby with no chance to hear anything to eternal torture. No way!

    CFB
     

Share This Page

Loading...