Agony of Christ on the Cross

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by saturneptune, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    The description of our Savior on the cross is quite graphic, both spiritually and physically. Jesus knew what He was going to experience, as evidenced from His prayer to the Father in the garden. At that one moment in time, right before He died, at the point where Jesus calls out to His Father, "My God, My God, why have You..............?" The sky turns dark. Since Creation, this has to be the one moment in time that changed everything from here to eternity.

    IMO, the spiritual and physical agony suffered by Jesus on the cross is beyond the human mind to understand or comprehend. We do not have a good grasp on what the wrath of God really means. This is the seriousness of the depth of sin, and how much God hates it.

    I guess my question is, do you think anyone besides Jesus has ever experienced suffering anywhere near what Christ did? Do you think we can even begin to imagine what He went through? Finally, do you think the agony Christ suffered on the cross is about the punishment the unsaved will experience in the Lake of Fire?

    Any responses appreciated.
     
  2. percho

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    In my opinion I would say it would be impossible for anyone to suffer as Jesus did and here is why.

    Jesus was a man, a living soul, yet he also was conceived in his mother by Spirit the God. Jesus was for all his life, in the flesh, without sin, therefore for him to suffer the angony of being forsaken by his Father God was something it would be impossible for any other man to experience. From the moment he commended his spirit, (his breath of life) into the hands of his Father which came at the moment of feeling forsaken by his Father he was dead for three days and three nights.

    He poured out his soul unto death for us with the promise of God who cannot lie, made before the begining of time, the hope of eternal life.

    There is no way sinful man could experience what Jesus, to use his discription, the Son of Man, who knew no sin, could experience.

    And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. John 17:5, 1 Peter 1:21
     
  3. kyredneck

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    Physically yes many have, one example being those crucified alongside Him, they had their legs broken, He did not, He had 'given up the ghost' already and missed that (so that the scriptures would be fulfilled).

    I don't think we can imagine the life He was giiving on the cross as compared to the life of a mortal.

    No, it's about fullfilling the scripture 'cursed be everyone that hangeth on a tree':

    Pink on 'The Two Trees':

    "...In studying the typical teaching of the Old Testament Scriptures we learn from them sometimes by way of contrast and sometimes by way of comparison. A striking illustration of this double fact is found in the second chapter of Genesis. In the ninth verse we read of "The tree of knowledge of good and evil." In Acts 5:30 we read, "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree"; and again in 1 Peter 2:24, "Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree."....."

    "Let us consider some of the points of contrast first.

    1. The first tree was planted by God. "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil" (Gen. 2:9) This tree then was planted not by Adam, but by Adam’s Maker— God. But the second tree, the tree to which our Lord was nailed, was planted by man. "And they crucified Him" (Matthew 27:35) is the brief but terrible record. It was human hands which devised, provided and erected that cruel tree on the hill of Calvary. In marked contrast from the first tree, it was the hands of the creature and not the Creator which planted the second tree.

    2. The first tree was pleasant to the eyes. "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat" (Gen. 3:6). Exactly in what this "pleasantness" consisted we do not know, but the Divine record seems to indicate that this tree was an object of beauty and delight. What a contrast from the second Tree! Here everything was hideous and repellant. The suffering Savior, the vulgar crowd, the taunting priests, the two thieves, the flowing blood, the three hours darkness—nothing was there to please the outward eye. The first tree was "pleasant to the eyes," but concerning the One on the second tree it is written, "They saw in Him no beauty that they should desire Him."

    3. God forbade man to eat of the first tree. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it" (Gen. 2:17). A divine prohibition was placed upon the fruit of this tree. But again, how different from the second tree! How startling the contrast! There is no restriction here. In this case man is freely invited to draw near and eat of the fruit of this tree. The sinner is hidden to "Taste and see that the Lord is good." "All things are ready, Come." The position is exactly reversed. Just as man was commanded not to eat of the fruit of the first tree, he is now commanded to eat of the second.

    4. Because God forbade man to eat of the first tree, Satan used every artifice to get man to eat of it. Contrariwise, because God now invites men to eat of the second tree, Satan uses all his powers to prevent men eating of it. Is not this another designed contrast marked out for us by the Holy Spirit? Humanly speaking it was solely due to the cunning and malice of the great enemy of God and man that our first parents ate of the forbidden fruit, and can we not also say, that it is now primarily due to the subtle devices of the old serpent the Devil that sinners are kept from eating the fruit of that second tree?

    5. The eating of the first tree brought sin and death "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17). It was through eating of the fruit of this tree that the Curse descended upon our race with all its attendant miseries. By eating of the second Tree comes life and salvation. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life" (John 6:53, 54). Is there not in these words of our Lord a latent reference to the history of man’s fall, and a designed contrast from the first tree? Just as by the act of "eating" man lost his spiritual life, so by an act of "eating" man now obtains spiritual and eternal life!

    6. Adam, the thief, through eating of the first tree, was turned out of Paradise, while the repentant thief, through eating of the second Tree, entered Paradise. We doubt not that once again there is a designed antithesis in these two things. A thief is connected with both trees, for in eating of the forbidden fruit our first parents committed an act of theft. Is it not then something more than a coincidence that we find a "thief" (yea, two thieves) connected with the second Tree also? And when we note the widely different experiences of the two thieves the point is even more striking. As we have said one was cast out of Paradise (the garden), the other was admitted into Paradise, and to say the least, it is remarkable that our Lord should employ the word "Paradise" in this connection—the only time He ever did use it!

    Now, briefly, let us consider some of the points of resemblance:

    1. Both trees were planted in a garden. The first in the Garden of Eden, the second in a garden which is unnamed. "Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden’’ (John 19:41). Are we not told this, for one reason, in order that we should connect the two trees? Is it not a striking point of analogy, that both the first Adam and the last Adam died in a "garden"!

    2. In connection with both trees we find the words "in the midst." "The tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil" (Gen. 2:9). The word "and" connecting the two trees together and intimating their juxtaposition in the midst of the garden. In like manner we also read concerning our Savior, "They crucified Him, and two others with Him on either side one, and Jesus in the midst?"

    3. Both are trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Where in all the world, or in all the Scriptures, do we learn the knowledge of good and evil as we do at the second Tree—the Cross? There we see Goodness incarnate. There we behold the Holiness of God displayed as nowhere else. There we discover the unfathomable love and matchless grace of Deity unveiled as never before or since. But there, too, we also see Evil see it in all its native hideousness. There we witness the consummation and climax of the creature’s wickedness. There we behold as nowhere else the vileness, the heinousness, the awfulness of sin as it appears in the sight of the thrice holy God. Yes, there is a designed resemblance as well as a contrast between the two trees. The Cross also is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    4. Finally, there is another tree beside the one that was planted in Eden, of which Genesis 3:6 is true, "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat." Ah! that second Tree is surely "good for food," too. The Cross of Christ and all that it stands for, is the very meat and marrow of the believer’s life. It is "good" as "food" for the soul! And how "pleasant" it is "to the eyes" of faith! There we see all our sins blotted out. There we see our old man crucified. There we see the ground upon which a holy God can meet a guilty sinner. There we see the Finished Work of our adorable Redeemer. Truly, it is "pleasant to the eyes." And is not this second Tree also "a tree to be desired to make one wise"? Yes; the preaching of the Cross is not only the power of God, but "the wisdom of God" as well. The knowledge of this second Tree makes the sinner "wise" unto salvation."
     
    #3 kyredneck, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  4. percho

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    Of course we also have to consider this:

    I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and do fill up the things lacking of the tribulations of the Christ in my flesh for his body, which is the assembly, Col 1:24 YLT
     
  5. kyredneck

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    I've often wondered about the true meaning of that passage percho.
     
  6. percho

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    A few more thoughts concerning the same.

    Jesus
    Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
    Heb 5:8,9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


    Us
    1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: ---(called to suffer)
    2 Tim 2:11,12 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
    If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:

    Also 2 Cor 4:10-18 is very interesting read keeping in mind the previous scriptures.
     
  7. saturneptune

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    IMO, the moment Christ said, "My God, My God.............." there has never been a greater feeling of physical pain, loneliness, sorrow, and so many other things I cannot imagine.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    Scripture tells us: and without shedding of blood is no remission.[Hebrews 9:22 ] and For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.[2 Corinthians 5:21]

    Jesus Christ by His death, the shedding of His blood, paid the penalty for sin, the penalty demanded by God. But we have no concept of the suffering of Jesus Christ because we have no understanding of the righteousness of God and how our sin offends God.
     
  9. Bronconagurski

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    Kyredneck posted: "Physically yes many have, one example being those crucified alongside Him, they had their legs broken, He did not, He had 'given up the ghost' already and missed that (so that the scriptures would be fulfilled)."

    They did have their legs broken, but there is no record they were scourged as Jesus was, ripping the flesh and weakening him so much he couldn't carry his cross.
     
  10. salzer mtn

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    Christ was a man of sorrows and aquainted with grief. Sorrows and grief were his constant companions while he was on this earth. While some people might describe someone as a man of joy or a man given to mirth, this man Christ Jesus was descibed as a man of sorrows and grief because man could not understand him, so they hated him without a cause. He was despised and rejected. Everyone knows on a smaller scale how it feels to be despised, which is greater than just being disliked, or rejected and made to be a out cast. Which of us have resisted unto blood striving against sin, Heb 12:4 The man Christ Jesus was stricken by man, Satan and God, Isa 53:4 The scripture say's that His visage was so marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men, Isaiah 52:14 I believe he was unrecognizable as he hung on the cross. Christ suffered not only physically but mental anguish as well. Christ was more sensitive to all of these sufferings than we would have been because when he became the sin barrier, He, not never knowing sin, this became a great shock to his system.
     
  11. percho

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    OR tell me if this makes sense, it is something I have thought about. That is, what the righteousness of God is.

    For he hath made him sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor 5:21 (Jesus poured out his soul unto death. Layed down his life.)

    That I put in bold of yours I believe also says this from Rev 1:5 and washed us from our sins in his own blood; Or as Paul says in 1 Cor 15:3 how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    Yet verses 16,17 of 1 Cor 15 says that Jesus dying, sheding his blood wasn't enough. That is, if Jesus has not been raised from the dead we are still in our sins. In other words our sins would not be washed away in his blood if he has not been raised from the dead. It also states that the faith of you all is vain, or that is the death of Jesus the Christ would be vain if he be not raised.

    Now Romans 3:21 says, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, (brought to light) (How?) 22 Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ (having been made sin and giving his life) (However remember, that wasn't enough. What is required for the washing to take place and the righteousness of God to be seen?)
    Titus 3:5 by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    That is the resurrection of Jesus being spoken of washing away our sins in his own blood. Acts 2:32,33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    The, he hath shed forth this, is the ending of Romans 3:22 of the imputation of the righteousness of God, unto all and upon all them that believe: imputed by the gift of the Holy Spirit which is received by the hearing of faith. That is the faith of Christ.

    See John 10:25-27 for who are, them that believe.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    he experienced the FULL wrath of God for sinners, enduring and taking in our place ALL meant for us to endure...

    NONE can endure that unless they were also God, we can not fully endure even just wrath of God abiding on our individual sins, much less that od the entire world!
     
  13. saturneptune

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    Thank you for that response. I have often in my life thought about the pain of the cross. One wonders if Christ realized the pain as He prayed in the garden. I am pretty sure He did.
     
  14. percho

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    Agony?

    Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, Heb 5:7 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Luke 22:42 and was heard in that he feared; Heb 5:7 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. Luke 22:43 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Luke 22:44 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb 12:3,4

    Nope I don't think any of us have been in such great agony as to resist unto blood striving against sin. Well at least I know I have not, best not speak for all.

    BTW Does anyone know what he Jesus became for despising the shame of having become sin and enduring death even the death of the cross?

    The author and finisher of, the faith. He Jesus became, faith (a noun) the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. He by inheritance became the hope of eternal life and the giver of gifts to men.

    He is the seed of faith by which Abraham was imputed with righteousness.
     

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