alchohol in church ..............

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by Gwyneth, Apr 23, 2008.

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  1. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth
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  2. Revmitchell

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    Grace Robber!:laugh:
     
  3. webdog

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    It's looking like history repeating itself :)

    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The Spread of Coffee to the Christian World[/FONT]



    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Coffee had been a part of Arab culture for centuries but not so in the western European world. Venetian fleets sailed the known world trading spices, silks, and perfumes with the East. It is believed that coffee come to Venice from Constantinople as part of this trade. There was only one problem. When the drink reached Rome the priest attacked it and forbid it consumption.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The priests believed that the coffee was the drink of the devil. That Satan had invented the drink for the Moslem infidels as a substitute for the wine they were forbidden to drink. Since wine in the Western Christian world was sanctified by Christ and used in Holy communion, coffee must then be of the Anti-Christ. If a Christian drank this devil brew they would risk eternal damnation is how the argument went.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]It wasn't until the late 1500's that Pope Clement VIII settled the dispute. He asked that the brew be brought before him. Intrigued by its powerful aroma, he sipped the coffee. It was delicious. The Pope blessed the coffee, and baptized it on the spot. He reasoned that banishing this drink from the Christian world would be a larger sin. With the Pope's blessing, imports of coffee to Italy and the Western world came flooding in paving the way for the first western coffee houses.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The English word "Coffee" comes from the Latin name of the genus Coffea. The genus Coffea is a member of the Rubiaceae family which has over 500 genera and 6,000 species that are largely tropical trees and shrubs. All species of Coffea are woody and range in size from small shrubs to trees over 30 feet tall. The species Coffea arabica gives us the arabica beans known the world over. Arabica beans are largely drunk on their own where as the Coffea robusta is usually a lower grade bean used primarily as a blend with arabica beans to make them go farther.[/FONT]

    http://www.gourmetcoffeeclub.com/cof_facts.htm

    ;) What would we all do without the Pope! :D
     
    #3 webdog, Apr 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2008
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    Linda read an article today of a Church in Sidney, Ohio that has applied for a beer and wine license.

    Sad that Churches would serve to their congregants that which deceives and mocks the partaker thereof and at the last stings like a poisonous serpent.
     
  5. Gwyneth

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    I think this is out of order too Ron.
     
  6. webdog

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    Not the first time alcohol has been in the church.

    “Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you” (1 Cor. 11:20-22).

    I see drunkeness condemned...not the alcohol.
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    Alcohol is condemned in the Bible. Some just choose not to admit it.
     
  8. Gwyneth

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    "I see drunkeness condemned"

    so do I Webdog, and I hope this doesn`t open the door to it in the Church building.
     
  9. webdog

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    I hope it doesn't lead to drunkeness in the church, too. However, should we ban pot lucks because it can (and DOES...at each dinner I have been to) lead to gluttony (oddly mentioned first in 1 Cor. 11)? Why hasn't anybody suggested that (I know...because it really hits home...for all of us)? ;)

    I see Paul condemning gluttony and drunkeness together in this verse...not food and drink (alcohol).
     
  10. Gwyneth

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    We don`t do `pot-luck` we have a cup of tea and a biscuit after evening service ........................ sometimes I have two biscuits :laugh: some of the people have a few miles to travel home and this small refreshment break is very welcome:thumbs:
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    Paul's epistle to the Church at Corinth included many judgment calls to the Church's shame. One such judgment was against their actions at fellowships.

    Many were having to go home because others were not able to control their appetites in food or drink. It had nothing to do with alcohol, it was concerning gluttony and greed.

    Paul learned his doctrines from the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ would not have served that poisonous drink that deceives and ensnares so many and leads them down the road to hell. Nor would have Paul, a follower of Christ, condoned drinking it in any amount.
     
  12. Linda64

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    Here is the link to that article about the church in Sidney, Ohio that is holding services in a bar to reach new people:

    Without the alcohol, there would be no drunkenness. It's obvious that the alcohol is the SOURCE of the problem. When you remove the alcohol, then there will be no problem (drunkenness)
     
    #12 Linda64, Apr 23, 2008
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  13. webdog

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    ...and without food, there would be no gluttony. Does your church have dinners?
     
  14. webdog

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    It was concerning the Lords Supper...which is done by the church. One can't get drunk in church without alcohol present IN the church.
     
  15. webdog

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    You would never make it in a church here in the US...particularly a baptist church where the motto is "I'm so stuffed I can't move" :D
     
  16. Gwyneth

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    "One can't get drunk in church without alcohol present IN the church."

    that`s right, and that`s why this is a bad idea, don`t you think?
     
  17. Palatka51

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    What would we do with out the coffee? [​IMG]
     
    #17 Palatka51, Apr 23, 2008
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  18. standingfirminChrist

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    Wrong, webdog. It was not the Lord's Supper.

    1 Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

    It was for fellowship, and and apparent greed on the behalf of some of those gathering.

    1 Corinthians 11:21-22 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

    That is why he told them that they had food and drink at home.

    What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

    Alcohol was not even in the picture.
     
  19. webdog

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    A man can't lust without women, either. We should probably get rid of them too while we are at it :laugh:

    Seriously, to answer your question, I don't know. I know here in the west it's not accepted as "christian" and sinful (see SFIC), but as I pointed out, coffee was in this same category at one point, and you will find coffee in every church today. Many times sin is defined culturally and not biblically, as I believe is the case with alcohol. I've yet to hear someone say "the old grape juice is the best, nobody after tasting the old stuff will want the new, freshly squeezed grape juice" :D
     
  20. Born_in_Crewe

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    Jesus did turn the water into wine. If he was against all alcoholic consumption, why would he have done this?
     
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