Alcohol, Acts 29 and the SBC

Can you explain how you would honor your pastor and Christian teachers with low pay.

A starting professor with a doctorate is paid less than one half of what a starting high school teacher with a bachelor’s degree out of college. That is less than one-half of what a starting professor makes starting at a university. What kind of a testimony to non-Christians is that? So you are willing to pay Christian workers who teach things of eternal value much less than those who teach things that will not last? Should you live on more money and have a higher standard of living than them?

Sometime read the book of Amos and Haggai and see what God’s word says about such things.

So you think it is a great Christian testimony to the world that Christian workers are poorly paid and you really do not care? The Bible says a man is worthy of his hire and you think not? There was a time when seminary professors pastored churches but now the SBC does not want that. I wonder why?

What would you think if I told you that my dad who is not a Christian rents a place to a retired pastor who can hardly afford anything. He practically gives the man the place rent free because he feels sorry for him. Then my dad points out how well his congregation has taken care of him. What kind of a testimony is that?

How would you like it if your employer gave you handouts and paid you with what was left over? That is how many treat Christian workers and pastors.

 

Read you Bible and determine by what you see and read if the standard of leadership Jesus gave is being exhibited. A leader is to put others first before himself. Jesus taught that those who desire to be first must be last. John said that he must decrease and Jesus must increase.

Abortion is not illegal but it is wrong.

 

He made it public so it is public information. It was in the news and in the newspapers. Let not many be teachers . . . .

 

I see no passages in scripture where architectural evangelism is done. The Bible says to go where they are. Go and make disciples teaching them. . .

Investing in the lives of peope should be done on a daily basis where we work and live.

If the people are drinking beer I see no evidence that beer is served outside of the building in homes to reach people. I would assume they have a liquor license.

How is it not program driven when beer is served in a church building.

I have reached hundreds of people but very few inside of a church building. I have invited very few people to church until they become a Christian. I am more concerned with their soul and that they learn about Christ than getting them in a church building.

 

When a fisherman goes fishing he goes to where the fish are. He doesn't build a big boat and then park it hoping that fish will come into the boat.

Mt. 4:19, "Follow me and I will make you fishers of men."

Too many churches spend loads of money on programs and buildings when there are many college students winning people to Christ and discipling them on a poverty income.

 

So when you think of the church you think of a building? The persecuted church in other countries is not a persecuted building.

What would you call the statements, "This isn’t just a brew pub, it’s a church,” NBC reporter Jennifer London said, describing the room where the meeting is held. The “church” in reality is the Schlafly Bottleworks where The Journey reaches out to younger adults who might not consider going to a traditional church setting."?

Isn't the church where God's people meet? Isn't the church meeting at a pub?

"The alcohol issue goes straight to the top at Acts 29, whose president, Mark Driscoll -- who is pastor of the Seattle-area Mars Hill Church -- wrote in his book, “Radical Reformission,” that abstinence from alcohol is a sin."

"According to information published on the church’s website, Mars Hill sponsored a New Year’s Eve party that included a champagne bar. Mars Hill’s website also advertises “beer-brewing lessons ... whenever a large group of (Mars Hill) men get together.”

Doesn't the church sponsor "beer-brewing lessons"?

 

Why would it matter?

Does having a pedigree change the truth?

 

Did you not write, "Do you have specific knowledge that something is unethical or illegal in any of this?"

 

Every Christian should have a vested interest in things that have eternal value. There was a time when a local pastor stood for me and he had nothing to gain and everything to lose. Both of us got plenty of criticism for standing up for what is right. eventually one of my accusers whom I had confronted earleir commitetd suicide. Some of the others were warned and they continued to go down the same road. Every leader whould take a criticism seriously. Every effort should be made to examine it for the truth.

Lots of people in the SBC care about pedigree. They talk about it fairly openly among the leaders. I have stood right there and listened to them talk about it. Try and get a job as a leader in the SBC without a SBC pedigree.

Is your care only limited to your denomination and the people you know directly? Do you not care about what is happening in regard to gays pastoring churches? Do you not care about those who call themselves Christians and live like the world? That kind of living is a black mark on those who live like Christ. Those were the only kind of people Jesus condemned. When I lived in Ft. Worth when Dr. Dilday was fired and the trustees lied, my mailman whom I had been getting to know and share my faith with knew about the incident before I did. He knew Dilday personally and saw the liars exposed. The issue of me being a Southern Baptist completely changed his view of Southern Baptists and me as well. Even though he liked me I could tell that what I said did not have as much impact because he knew I was a Southern Baptist.

Those who remain silent in the church and stand for nothing allow unrighteousness to prevail.

The Bible says in Prov. 18:17 “The first to plead his case seems right, until another comes and examines him.

Asking Patterson is much like asking a man for the the truth before an investigation is done.

Have you read the following information at http://www.paigepatterson.info/askdrp.cfm ?
“Thank you for coming to the Official Website for Paige Patterson! Due to the number of requests we are not taking anymore questions at this time. Please check back for the answers to previously submitted questions.”

That posting has been there for as long as I can remember.

Christianity is one sided too. Are you saying the prophets in the OT wasted their time?

When the state workers of AZ were told by several pastors about the BFA they sided with the BFA. And reported to the people present at the state meeting that year that everything was okay and were somewhat efefctive at silencing their critics. That is until the BFA was investigated and shut down. The state people had simply asked the BFA about their critics and did not listen to the pastors who voiced criticism. The crooks assured them that everything was okay. People who have nothing to hide welcome the truth. They do not need to speak. The truth speaks for them. They welcome an investigation deep down they know the truth.

When Klouda was fired and Patterson was questioned, his comments were zero. If he thought that what he did was right and ethical why did a trustee speak rather than Patterson? Why leave that to someone else when he should have stepped up to the plate? That is what leaders do.

Who is listening to the truth about the SBC right now? Many of the people who have said something have eventually voted with their feet. When talking with pastors outside of the SBC they do not know much about what is going on but they do know that it is not good.

The public schools have open books why should an organization who should have a higher standard of God’s standard do at least the same thing. If you went to a public school you could find out the salary of every employee. Many of the churches of the leaders in the SBC do not disclose the pastor’s salary. Anyone in ministry knows why. If you contacted the SBC could find out what salary Patterson draws?

I would challenge you to contact Patterson and ask him for full disclosure of his salary and expenditures covered by the SBC. Then tell us what his response is.

 

I used abortion of as an example of something being unethical and not illegal.