Alcohol-Question?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jesus is Lord, Apr 20, 2003.

  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    Hello everybody!

    I am from Germany. In my country Christians have absolutly no problem with drinking alcohol (beer, whiskey etc. :( ) They don´t do it until they are drunk but they drink a lot. I know that American Christians don´t drink any kind of alcohol. Some believe it is sin to drink it, some believe it is just wise not to do it.
    (Let me mention here that I don´t drink any kind of alcohol!).

    But I really would like to know your opinion about this subject. There are some strong passages in the Word of God concerning wine...
    I just would like to know your position because when I bring the issue up, everything I hear from German Christians is "Jesus used to drink wine a lot". What is your position and why?

    Thanky for your help!

    Alex
     
  2. Glen Seeker

    Glen Seeker
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    Alchohol in itself is not evil. The misuse of it is. The same goes for other things too (money, power, etc.)

    Jesus drank wine. At the wedding feast at Cana, he made at least 60 gallons of wine after the wedding guests were already tipsy. If he sees nothing wrong with it, then who am I to condemn it?
     
  3. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz
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    I am an American Christian and I drink, just not to excess. Lots of things wrong with drunkeness, not a thing wrong with a drink or two.
     
  4. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso
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    I am an American Christian also. I am also an ex drinker and drugger. There is something wrong with indulging in any mind altering substance. The Holy Spirit works through the mind. Anything that dulls the senses of the mind, dulls the ability to listen to, and act upon the impressions of the Holy Spirit of God.

    If one is not concerned about cutting of the Spirit of God, then their priorities are mixed up. Take it from someone who knows first hand, it doesn't matter if you slow the brain down, or speed it up, both will impare your ability to here and respond to the small still voice of the Holy Spirit.

    BYe for now. Y.b. in C. Keith
     
  5. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Anything that dulls the senses of the mind, dulls the ability to listen to, and act upon the impressions of the Holy Spirit of God.

    Should we then stay away from sleepiness? Perhaps sleep altogether?
     
  6. Dan Stiles

    Dan Stiles
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    Alex,

    Gruess Gott! First, I have to ask if you are from the Goettingen near Ulm (there's another north from Kassel, I think). I lived in Ludwigsfeld (south of New Ulm) in the '80s and my son was born in Ulm. I also lived in Neubruecke (in the Hunsruck) and in Frankfurt a.M.

    In my six years in Germany, I rarely saw a drunken German (except maybe during Fashing!). Drinking alcoholic beverages was a normal part of life even for many youth. Teens would even cross the Donau from Ulm to Neu Ulm (for those unfamiliar, that's crossing state lines) because they could buy beer for less than Coke in Bavaria.

    We Americans tend to do "everything to excess" rather than "all things in moderation" and as such our culture has built up a reactionary and polarized set of values on drinking. While the scriptures tell us to "be not drunk on wine," many go out of their way to expound on the evils of all things alcoholic while others take the opposite extreme. What you will find in this country are public positions (strong anti-alcohol or strong libertarian positions) and private positions. These private positions may be best expressed in the old jokes about Baptists (or Methodists) being a people who don't drink - in public, or a people strangely afflicted with blindness and amnesia while standing in line at the local beverage store. In other words, many are hypocritical in their behavior and prone to bend the scripture to their own views.

    I remember a German Methodist Bishop who came over here for a few months in the mid-1990's and commented that the one thing he missed from home was good beer. Now, you can buy German beer in the US, even a good dunkle-weisswen, but he would not drink beer here because in this culture drinking anything alcoholic in any quantity would take away from his witness. People would rather focus on the messenger than the message.

    Drinking is not sinful in and of itself, such as Paul spoke about eating meat that had been sacrificed to pagan gods, but it can negatively affect a Christian's credibility in some cultures and sub-cultures. So, in a sense, whether or not a Christian drinks in a function of how stubborn they are! :D

    Myself, I pastor a church that comes from the holiness tradition and I don't partake of alcohaolic beverages. I have even had to defend myself for buying non-alcoholic wine to cook with!

    God bless you,
    Dan
     
  7. JesusIsLord

    JesusIsLord
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    Thanks for your post, Dan!

    It is the Göttingen near Kassel. I wasn´t aware of the fact that there is another one in the Ulm area [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Yes, "Fasching" is something terrible. But even during the rest of the year I see a lot of Christians :eek: drinking a lot of alcohol. For example: Several years ago, our youth leader and some of our youth group went to a bar after the Christian Youth Club of our church and drank beer and "strong drink" like whiskey and so on. After one beer and one whiskey they drive home with a full car. I can´t and don´t want to understand that behavior toward alcohol...

    What do you think?
     
  8. Dan Stiles

    Dan Stiles
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    Alex,

    I think it is cultural. Even the Bavarian monks looked forward to Lent when they could fast from solid food and take their sustanance from the monestary's own dunkle hefe weissen bier - a half liter would be like drinking a loaf of bread. In contrast, the holiness movement in the US spent a great deal of effort on complete abstinence. Throughout Europe, drinking in moderation is the norm.

    As far as the attitude of youth goes, they are naturally rebellious to some degree. Youth always wants to grow up too fast, and drinking is one way of showing how grown up one is. In my part of the US, tobacco is more of a problem.

    In both of our countries, Laws are being re-written to discourage rather than outlawing drunkeness. For example, what will the courts do in Germany to a drunken driver? One example was a man who stopped his car well off the autobahn (A67 north of Landstuhl) and was hit in the rear by a woman and her husband. He had been drinking and decided it was safer to sleep. She was just driving fast (estimated 160 KPH) at night. She lost control of her car and hit him; her husband died. The sleeping driver in the parked car was convicted of the equivalent of manslaughter and sent to prison. Similarly, we know that the few sections of autobahn left without speed limits are covered by the law which makes the insurance companies free from all liability if the driver who causes an accident was driving in excess of 130 KPH (or if he has been drinking, I think). Culture is being molded.

    I disagree with any drinking and driving, and I think a Christian youth leader should find a better way of spending time than taking the kids to drink.

    God bless you,
    Dan
     
  9. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage
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    "Jesus used to drink wine a lot"

    The Greek word used here is "oinos," a variation of the Hebrew word "yayin."This word can refer to grape juice in any stage, either fermented,or unfermented.

    Even in pre-prohibition America, nonalcoholic grape juice was often referred to as "grape wine."
     

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