Alcohol-Question

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jesus is Lord, Apr 20, 2003.

  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    Hello everybody!

    I am from Germany. In my country Christians have absolutly no problem with drinking alcohol (beer, whiskey etc. ) They don´t do it until they are drunk but they drink a lot. I know that American Christians don´t drink any kind of alcohol. Some believe it is sin to drink it, some believe it is just wise not to do it.
    (Let me mention here that I don´t drink any kind of alcohol!).

    But I really would like to know your opinion about this subject. There are some strong passages in the Word of God concerning wine...
    I just would like to know your position because when I bring the issue up, everything I hear from German Christians is "Jesus used to drink wine a lot". What is your position and why?

    Thanks for your help!

    Alex
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    I believe alcohol is inherently evil and "deceives" even the most well-meaning christian with its power.

    As a pastor, I would never touch alcohol and preach against it regularly. Even the "mixed" alcohol of Bible days (3 or 4 parts of water to 1 part of wine, diluted its alcoholic content to almost negligible levels) would not pass my lips.

    The LEAST little bit of alcohol can impair my judgment and bring reproach on my Lord. So I find the best course is total abstinence.
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    I agree with Dr. Bob and would like to share this information:

    What Does The Bible Say About Drinking?
    Although the Bible contains many instances of drinking we should remember that NONE of these were ever held up to us as examples for us to follow. The Bible and the weight of it's authority is against the evils of alcoholic beverages. We hope and pray that after you have had an opportunity to examine these scriptures and the sobering evidence herein, you will come to recognize alcohol as the "Enemy of every Christian". Total abstinence should be strived for!

    Genesis 9:20-27 The first "man of distiniction" and the tragic consequences of his alcohol abuse.

    Yearly (37%) of rapes and sexual assaults involve alcohol use by the offender (US Dept. of Justice, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime, 4/98). Genesis 19:30-38 Drinking contributes to Lot's debauchery of his own daughters.

    Heavy and chronic drinking depresses the immune system and predisposes one to infectious diseases, including respiratory infections, pneumonia, & tuberculosis (NIAAA, AHRW, Vol. 17, No. 2, 1993, p. 176). Leviticus 10:8-11 God commanded Aaron and his sons not to drink wine nor strong drink while serving God.

    Fetal alcohol syndrome, which can occur when women drink during pregnancy, is the leading known environmental cause of mental retardation in the Western World (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, op. cit. p.221). Numbers 6:3 The Nazarite's vow excluded drinking wine or other strong drink.

    Studies of suicide victims show that over 20% of suicide victims are alcoholic (NIAAA, AHRW, Vol. 17, No. 2, 1993, p. 133). Deuteronomy 21:20 Drinking alcohol was one of the attributes of a stubborn, rebellious and disobedient son.

    More than an estimated 6.6 million children under age 18 live in households with at least one alcoholic parent (NIAAA, Alcohol Alert, No. 9, 7/90, p. 1). Judges 13:4, 7, 14 Samson's mother was commanded by the angel of the Lord not to drink wine or other strong drink.

    41% of all traffic fatalities (the leading cause of accidental death) are alcohol-related (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Traffic Safety Facts, 1996); 1 Samuel 25:36-38 Nabal, an evil, drinking man was smitten ny the Lord.

    Alcoholics are 5 times more likely than others to die in motor vehicle crashes (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, op. cit., p. 233). 2 Samuel 11:13 David, by the use of strong drink, leads Uriah into a fatal trap.

    4 in 10 violent crimes involve alcohol use by the offender.
    ( U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Alcohol and Crime," 1998).2 Samuel 13:28-29 Amnon, is murdered by his brothers servants while on a drinking spree.

    Among violent crimes the offender is far more likely to have been drinking than under the influence of other drugs. (U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). 1 Kings 16:8-10 Elah, King of Israel was murdered by one of his captains "While drinking himself drunk".

    Estimates suggest that alcohol is associated with between 47% and 65% of adult drownings (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, p. 243). 1 Kings 20:13-21 Ben-hadad, the King of Syria and 32 other kings were drinking themselves drunk when a small band of Israelites fell upon the Syrians and put them to flight.

    1/4th of all persons admitted to hospitals have alcohol problems or are undiagnosed alcoholics being treated for consequences of drinking (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, op. cit., p. xi). Esther 1:5-22 King Ahasuerus, after a week of feasting and drinking, drunkenly tries to subject Vashti, his queen, to the beastly gaze of the drunken princes and people.

    2/3 of the population drink, but 10% of all drinkers drink 1/2 of all the alcohol consumed (NIAAA, Sixth Special Report to US Congress on Alcohol and Health, USDHHS, 1/87, p. 3). Proverbs 20:1 No wise person will allow himself to be deceived by wine which is a mocker, or by strong drink which is raging.

    From 1985 to 1992, the economic costs of alcoholism and alcohol-related problems rose 42% to $148 billion. (NIAAA, news release, 5/13/98). Proverbs 21:17 Drinking Leads to Poverty.

    In the past decade, four times as many Americans died in drunk
    driving crashes as were killed in the Vietnam War (NHTSA, 1995) Proverbs 23:21 Admonishes to refrain from even looking upon wine.

    Heavy and chronic drinking harms virtually every organ and system in the body (NIAAA, AHRW, Vol. 17, No. 2, 1993, p. xxvii). Proverbs 23:29-30 Strong drink produces sorrow, woe, contentions, babbling, wounds without cause and redness of eyes.

    Heavy and chronic drinking contributes to approximately 65% of pancreatitis cases (NIAAA, AHRW, Vol. 17, No. 2, 1993, p. 171). Proverbs 23:32 At the last alcohol bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

    An association has been established in homosexual and heterosexual populations between alcohol use, and behavior that increases risks for contracting HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, op. cit., p. 245). Proverbs 23:33 Alcohol fills mens minds with impure and perverse thoughts.

    In 1996 drinking and driving killed a human being every 31 minutes(National Highway Traffic Safety {NHTSA}, Traffic Safety Facts, 1996). Proverbs 23:24 Alcohol brings on danger, accidents and insecurity.

    4.4 million "binge" drinkers ages 12-20 (consumed 5 or more drinks in a row on a single occasion in 1996) (National Institute on Drug Abuse {NIDA}, 1996 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse). Proverbs 23:35 Insensibility follows drinking, rendering man into a clod; and it is habit forming so that the drinker upon awakening seeks it "Yet again".

    3 million violent crimes (including rapes, robberies, sexual assaults; aggravated and simple assaults) occur each year in which the victims perceive the offender to have been drinking at the time of the offense. (U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Alcohol and Crime," 1998). Proverbs 31:4-5 Officials with the responsibility of human life on their hands should not imbibe.

    Heavy and chronic drinking is associated with cardiovascular diseases like cardiomyopathy, hypertension, arrhythmias, and stroke(NIAAA, AHRW, Vol. 17, No. 2, 1993, p. 172). Ecclesiastes 2:3 The writer of Ecclesiastes tried strong drink but in the end admitted that this too was vanity.

    Yearly (15%) of robberies involve alcohol use by the offender (US Department of Justice, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime, 4/98). Ecclesiastes 10:17 That nation is blessed whose leaders eat for strength and refrain from drunkeness.

    1/2 of all boating fatalities had a blood alcohol content (BAC) of .04; BAC's of .10 or more were found in 31% of the fatalities(US Department of Transportation, United States Coast Guard, Boating Statistics 1994, 9/95). Isaiah 5:11-12 Woe in pronounced of those who give themselves to strong drink.

    Inmates convicted of murder reported alcohol was a factor in 1/2 the murders committed U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Alcohol and Crime," 1998). Isaiah 5:22 Further woe is pronounced upon drunkards.

    Yearly, about 1.4 million incidents of alcohol-related violence are committed against strangers. ( U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). Isaiah 22:13 Drinking often goes with carnal living.

    Heavy and chronic drinking is the single most important cause of illness and death from liver disease (alcoholic hepatitis and cirrhosis) (NIAAA, AHRW, Vol. 17, No. 2, 1993, p. 165). Isaiah 28:1 A woe is pronounced upon the drunkards of Ephraim.

    Alcoholics are 16 times more likely than others to die in falls, and 10 times more likely to become fire or burn victims (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report). Isaiah 28:3 The drunkards of Ephraim are to be trodden down and destroyed.

    70% of alcohol-related incidents of violence occur in the home. ( U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). Isaiah 28:7 Prophets and priests become incapable of spiritual leadership because of their drinking.

    82% of high school seniors have used alcohol (NIDA, 1997 Monitoring the Future Study, Seconardy School Students). Isaiah 56:12 Drinking accompanies foolish optimism and the sinner's vain hope that his sins will not find him out.

    Junior/middle and senior high school students drink 35% of all wine coolers sold in the United States; they also drink 1.1 billion cans of beer(The Centers for Disease Control {CDC}, "Alcohol and Other Drug Use Among High School Students--United States, 1990," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report {MMWR}, 11/91, p. 776). Jeremiah 35:5-8,14,19 Reohabites who steadfastly held to total abstinence assured of God's continued blessings.

    Drivers under 25 were more likely than those over 25 to be intoxicated in a fatal crash (CDC, "Alcohol-Related Traffic Fatalities Among Youth and Young Adults - United States, 1982-1989," MMWR, 3/91, p. 179). Daniel 1:5, 8, 16; 10:3 Daniel, who refused to drink the king's wine was especially blessed by the Lord.

    Based on inflation and population growth, estimated economic costs of alcoholism and alcohol-related problems for 1995 totalled $166.5 billion (NIAAA, news release, 5/13/98). Daniel 5:1-2 This is a tragic example of a king who drank and led his people to also.

    Per capita arrest rates for alcohol violations (including manufacture, possession and sale of alcohol, but excluding public drunkenness and DWI offenses) are highest at public, 4 year colleges. ( U.S. Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). Daniel 5:3 Drinking leads to profaning sacred things.

    Among the 5.3 million convicted offenders under the jurisdiction of corrections agencies in 1996, more than 36% (Approximately 2 million) were drinking at the time of the offense for which they were convicted. ( U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). Daniel 3:25-28 Moral degradation, of which drinking is a symptom, is ultimately punished by God.

    Yearly (27%) of aggravated assaults involve alcohol use by the offender (US Department of Justice, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime, 4/98). Hosea 4:10-11 Strong drink and immorality go hand in hand.

    2/3 of teenagers who drink report that they can buy their own alcoholic beverages (OIG, HHS, "Youth and Alcohol: A National Survey. Drinking Habits, Access, Attitudes, and Knowledge," Washington, DC, 6/91). Hosea 7:5 The king, by his drinking was not only made sick, but became scornful as well.

    Studies suggest that women metabolize alcohol less efficiently than men, leading to higher blood alcohol in women over a shorter period of time. This difference may make women more vulnerable than men to alcohol-induced liver damage (NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, op. cit., p. xxvi). [For more information, see NCADD's "Use of Alcohol and Other Drugs Among Women"] Joel 3:3 Young women were sold for the price of a drink.

    Alcohol-related problems more prominent for women than men include serious reproductive and sexual dysfunctions; rapid development of dependence; more serious liver disease; victimization by others, particularly spouses; and sexual victimization ((NIAAA, Eighth Special Report, op. cit., p.275). Amos 4:1 Dissolute women, oppressors of the poor, call for their drink.

    Alcohol-related crashes cost $46.1 billion, including $5.1 billion in medical expenses in 1996. This represents 33% of all economic costs attributed to motor-vehicle crashes (The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention {CDC}, Prevention of Motor Vehicle-Related Injuries, 1997, p. 66). Amos 6:3-6 The evil, idle rich who are given uimbibing wine were not concerned about the affliction of the poor.

    Alcohol-related traffic fatalities remain a leading cause of death for teens and young adults (The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention {CDC},Prevention of Motor Vehicle-Related Injuries, p. 150). Habakkuk 2:5 Arrogance is inflamed by drink.

    30% of children in grades 4 - 6 report that they have received "a lot" of peer pressure from friends to drink beer; 31% to try marijuana; & 34% to try cigarettes (The Weekly Reader National Survey on Drugs and Alcohol, Middletown, CT, Field Publications, Spring 1995). Habakkuk 2:15 It is wrong to lead another to drink.

    Heavy and chronic drinking can lead to reduced functioning of the testes and ovaries, which results in hormone deficiency, sexual dysfunction & infertility (NIAAA, Alcohol Alert, No. 26, 11/95). Habakkuk 2:16 Drink leads to shame and humiliation.

    40% of on the job fatalities and 47% of on the job injuries can be linked to alcohol use and abuse(Bernstein & Mahoney, "Management Perspectives on Alcoholism: The Employer's Stake in Alcoholism Treatment," Occupational Medicine, Vol. 4, No. 2, 1989, pp. 223-232). [For more information, see NCADD's "Alcohol and Other Drugs in the Workplace" facts.] Matthew 24:48-51 Drinking is not consistent with alertness.

    Those who murdered intimates admitted drinking the largest quantity for the longest period prior to the offense. ( U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). Luke 1:15 The greatness of John the Baptist is linked with his total abstinence.

    Heavy and chronic drinking increases cancer risks, with an estimated 2-4% of all cancer cases believed caused directly or indirectly by alcohol abuse. (NIAAA, Alcohol Alert, No. 21, 7/93). Luke 12:45 Christ warns against drunkenness.

    Compared with drivers who have not consumed alcohol, the risk of a single-vehicle fatal crash for drivers with BACs at or above .15%, the risk is estimated to be 380 times higher. (NIAAA "Drinking and Driving," Alcohol Alert No. 31, 1/96). Luke 21:34 Drinking prevents men from being prepared for the judgement day.

    Separated and divorced men and women were 3 times as likely as married men and women to say they had been married to an alcoholic or problem drinker (NCHS, Advance Data, op. cit., p. 6). Romans 13:13 All are admonished to walk honestly, not in rioting and drunkeness.

    Yearly (25%) of the 1.7 million lesser assaults involve alcohol use by the offender(US Dept. of Justice, Alcohol and Crime: An Analysis of National Data on the Prevalence of Alcohol Involvement in Crime, 4/98). Romans 14:21 Christians are admonished not to drink lest a brother be caused to stumble.

    In 1996 there were 1.9 million admitted heavy drinkers (those consuming 5+ drinks on the same occasion on at least 5 different days) (National Institute on Drug Abuse {NIDA}, 1996 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse). 1 Corinthians 5:11 Christians are forbidden to keep company with drunkards.

    Victims are injured in 60% of alcohol-related incidents of violence. ( U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Alcohol and Crime, 1998). 1 Corinthians 6:10 No drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

    In 1995 21. 5% (262,112) admitted to alcohol treatment programs were under age 24, including 18,194 under age 15(Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, National Admissions to Substance Abuse Treatment Services, Advance Report No. 12, 2/97, p.30). 1 Corinthians 11:21 The Lord's Supper is no time for drunkeness.

    9.5 million Americans ages 12 to 20 had at least 1 drink last month (96') (National Institute on Drug Abuse {NIDA}, 1996 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse). Galatians 5:21 Drunkeness prevents men from inheriting the Kingdom of God.

    3 out of 10 Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash at some time in their lives(National Highway Traffic Safety {NHTSA}, Traffic Safety Facts, 1996). Ephesians 5:18 Christians are commanded not to be drunk with wine but to be filled with the spirit.

    On an average of every 31 minutes in 1996 a human being was killed in a alcohol-related U.S. traffic fatalities(National Highway Traffic Safety {NHTSA}, Traffic Safety Facts, 1996). 1 Timothy 3:3, 8 Church leaders must be "not given to wine."

    http://www.iamnotofthisworld.com/drinking.htm
     
  4. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    This isn't accurate. Only a small percentage of Christians (usually Southern, conservative evangelicals) don't drink any alcohol at all. We used to meet for drinks after classes at my Baptist seminary.

    Joshua
     
  5. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    Thanks for your posts. I know that there are strong passages concerning wine and strong drink. What confuses me, for example, is Deuteronomy 14:26. There are so many verses in the Bible against any kind of alcohol. But in Deuteronomy God Himself is not only talking about wine but strong drink . What do you think about this verse? I agree with Dr. Bob. His statement is mine but what about Deuteronomy 14:26? :confused:
    As I wrote I live in a country where every Christian is looking for Scripture that supports the thought that alcohol is something good. What can I answer the?

    God bless you.

    Alex
     
  6. PJ

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    Hi Alex. I agree with Dr. Bob whole heartedly. Baptists know better than to dabble in alcohol, though I'm sad to say some do. The Lord will richly bless you for declining your friends' offer. God bless you ... PJ
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    Alex... and these 'friends' who quote Deut. 14:26, do they read the WHOLE chapter and live by that WHOLE chapter? Have they EVER eaten pork? What about some of the other animals that are forbidden? Do they save their tithes and carry it afar?

    There are 23,214 in the Old Testament and 7,959 in the New Testament giving 31,173 verses. People looking for approval of their 'worldly ways' will find the two or three verses out of 31,173 that, taken out of context, seem to support their 'worldly ways' and use them to prove what they are doing is God ordained.

    I think Not!
    Diane
     
  8. wizofoz

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    That is very much like saying guns are evil because they have the power to kill.

    A bottle of whiskey sitting on a table can do no more harm than a gun lying beside it, as long as a person does not pick them up and use them for evil purposes. It is not the alcohol itself that is evil, it's the way it is used by a person.
    Nyquil has alcohol in it. So does Listerine. Are these products evil?

    Drunkenness and alcohol abuse is sinful. Anything abused can bring about evil. Don't blame an inanimate object for a person's irresponsibility.
     
  9. Caretaker

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    The alcohol industry is a multi-billion dollar industry that makes its money on a product that brings no good that I can see by its existence in society. It is sold in places of ill repute that exploit women and sexuality; it is a major contributing factor in teenage pregnancy, alcohol related traffic deaths, sexual promiscuity, spousal abuse, violent crime.

    NO ONE DRINK AT DINNER WILL NOT CAUSE ANY OF THE ABOVE.

    BUT: should you as a Christian use your money which the God of Heaven and Earth has given you the power to get, to promote or increase the sales by even one bottle of an industry that exists because of the weakness of the flesh of many?

    As with many I choose not to drink do to the witness, for how can one witness to the alcohol abuser when you are standing behind him in line at the liquor store, getting a "drug fix" at the same source?

    We must live our witness 24/7, for how we live is a much greater testimony to Him we serve, then 10,000 words of script.


    For me the answer is no drinking.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  10. Alcott

    Alcott
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    As with many I choose not to drink do to the witness, for how can one witness to the alcohol abuser when you are standing behind him in line at the liquor store, getting a "drug fix" at the same source?

    How can one witness to a glutton when standing in front of the ice cream store slurping on a milkshake?
     
  11. wizofoz

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    And your point is.....?
     
  12. John Wells

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    I guess the point is . . . two wrongs justify one another! :confused:

    As Deut 14:26 indicates, the use of alcoholic beverages is not condemned in God's Word. Drunkenness always is.

    "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21, NIV)

    Given the tragic figures above on the devastation to lives, families, marriages, that alcohol is causing in modern times, and given that we are told to "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," (1 Peter 3:15, NIV)

    That would be hard to do if intoxicated! ;)

    [ April 22, 2003, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
  13. Alcott

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  14. wizofoz

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    If I preach against alcohol, and am seen drinking, I have destroyed my witness. If I preach on the evils of eating meat, and am seen eating a steak, same thing. (Gotta have my meat and taters, though. [​IMG] )

    IMO, just because someone is a vegetarian does not mean that they should expect everyone else to stop eating meat around them. But.....

    In Romans 14:15 it says "Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;
    21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak."

    Here we get into the problem of what you consider is right versus what others consider is right. If you think it's ok to take a drink now and then, but your brother does not, do you take a drink in front of him anyway? Paul says no.

    Would this apply to food as well? Paul says yes.
     
  15. Alcott

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    Then why did you say "Gotta have my meat and taters, though"? Are you saying it's alright to eat meat as long as you do not eat it with a vegetarian looking on? Is so, then is it alright to take a drink as long as an alcoholic is not looking on?
     
  16. wizofoz

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    Do you not recognize a bit of levity when you see it?

    Anyway, like I said, if you talk against something (eating meat, alcohol, whatever), then you don't need to do it, whether or not someone is looking on, otherwise you're destroying your witness.

    What you do in the privacy of your own home is your business; it's between you and God. Abstaining from meat or drink in front of your brother is a sign of respect for them, but you shouldn't lead them to believe you're against it if you aren't.
     
  17. Alcott

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    Answer these 2 questions then:

    Have you ever, at any time, consumed an alcoholic drink, and if so and an alcoholic asked you would you answer him with truth?

    Do you ever eat meat in a public place, realizing you may be seen by one who has a conviction to eat no meat?
     
  18. wizofoz

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    Yes, and yes.
    I don't understand, though, the point you're trying to make.
     
  19. bapterian

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    The use of alcohol is not prohibited in scripture. However, scripture warns of it's abuse or overuse and how it can make us say and do stupid things. Romans 12:1 and the Proverbs come to mind. When we cross the line into drunkeness, then it is sin.

    I personally do not drink because of the potentially harmful effects on my mind and overall physical health. Most of all, I want to be led by the Holy Spirit in my decisions. Regardless of my conviction not to drink, I do not want to bind the conciences of men to standards the Bible does not bind them to. This is what the Pharisees did to men in their day. I want to avoid that.

    Final thought: I grew up in a Baptist church where the pastor and other folks believed you were in sin if you took a “sip of beer.” They had no problem teaching this, but they were usually silent regarding the sin of gluttony.
     
  20. Y'Israel

    Y'Israel
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    "A bottle of whiskey sitting on a table can do no more harm than a gun lying beside it..."

    ***

    Got a chuckle out of this one...

    If you enter a house...and see a bottle of whiskey...with a gun lying beside it...on a table...what would be your first thought?...

    RUN!!!...would be mine...it is like saying a person is armed...and dangerous...

    If a perosn is armed...to me, they are automatically dangerous...

    whether it be with alcohol...or any other drug...and/or a gun...

    and a caution to pastors who drink...remember what happened to...Nadab and Abihu...and Noah...among others...
     

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