Alcohol

Actaully pot is legal in a few places in the US but in less than an oz.
There is currently legislation in a few of states who are asking to have it legalized not only to have and use, but to grow and sell. I 'think' California is one of them looking at/into this.

Not arguing one way or another just putting out some information.

 

Look kids, Big Ben! Parliament!

 

I would say no. Paul explained why it would be ok but left the matter entirely in Timothy's court. What I find humorous is that Timothy was one of Pauls students and he abstain absolutely from alcoholic drinks apparently even when it came to medicinal purposes. Paul didn't tell Timothy he need to buck up and drink a little because it is ok for christians to do it. In fact Paul only states to take just enough to help him with his ailment but did nothing more. Also during that time alcohalic drinks were almost always mixed with water to dilute it's potency.

Yes, and there are words that are used interchangably for both alcohalic and non-alcohalic drinks, like oinos.

However, with respect to the 'FAT' preacher, it appears you are making a blanket judgment without any information. It seems from your that just being overweight means that person is automatically glottonous/self-serving/selfish/covetous (all of which refer to the nature of gluttony). If a person is overweight there can be more contributing factors than just gluttony. Granted there are many times it is not the the rule but the exception, but you can not throw out a blanket statement like which includes anyone 'FAT'. I will agree that 'some' preachers rant of certain sins while evading something that might touch on them.

One more thing I think you will agree with, scripture teaches moderation in all things.

 

True about the taste. However there are many poisons out there that taste exquisite but, as the KJV would say, the end thereof is death. :laugh:

For me it isn't about drinking alcohal being a sin.
Being intoxicated and also being drunk are sins, but not drinking in and of itself.

What determines for me whether or not I partake depends on 4 factors:
1. Why am I doing it?
2. How does the world view it?
3. How do my brothers and sisters within my sphere of influence percieve it?
4. Based on the above how will this both affect and reflect my testimony?

If all of above are in the positive I see no problem, but if in any of the above there is an issue, I would not.

 

Yes I am making a blanket statement, however I have plenty of information. Having rode the deputation trail, I have met, fellowshipped with, and eaten with a great many preachers.

It was my observation (first hand testimony), in every instance, that those who were over-weight, failed to moderate their consumption of food, and in every instance they were staunchly against any form of alcoholic beverage for anyone lost or saved (no scriptures provided). No matter what the cuisine, the choice of restaurant always included "all you can eat buffet" on the sign.

Now of course that was amoungst the Independent Fundamental Baptist brethren. Perhaps other persuasions of Baptists and other denominations do not experience the same level of hypocrisy in the pulpit.
:tonofbricks:

 

Being that I too have 'riden the same trail' not only in IFB in my early 20's but also currently in the SBC, and I can say that your spere of influence would seem to have been either somewhat small or maybe you just happen to only hang out those types of preachers. However I can say from, first hand testimony, your evaluation is not accurate except in relation those whom you have associated with. Besides, I know many physically fit pastors who never eat anywhere 'but' all you can eat buffets when eating with fellow pastors or belivers they are sharing a meal with.

I'm not knocking your point because it is valid and validated by some in the ministry, though not all. However blanket statements about all who are overweight (though it is purely subjective as there is no biblical standard) being gluttons, place those who use them in the catagory of slandering their brethren, and I would rather you not be in a position to be accused of such. IOW - I would encourage you 'not' to use such blanket statements unless there is no question, all fit into that catagory.

Also.. Even though I disagree with some of those pastors who hold to -no one is allowed to drink (sinner or saint), I have yet to meet one of those preachers who had no scripture to provide for their POV.

 

Consumption of alcoholic beverages is scripturally permitted. Drunkenness is not. End of story.

 

Perhaps we should consider knives a sin since people have murdered others with knives.

 

RB, the real issue here is the sinfulness of the heart vs the sinfulness of objects.

Knives do not sin and are not sin.
Alcohol does not sin and is not sin.

People are sinful and do sin.

The actions of people, the way they take God's creation and do wickedly with it is what makes sin.

The bible is very clear in many passages that wine and other alcoholic beverages are in fact a blessing at times.
The Bible is also clear that abusing wine is very dangerous and sinful.

The reason that alcohol is seen in a different light than things like food, celibacy etc is that you can live without alcohol.

Religions that require people to stop eating don't live long.

Religions that require celibacy tend to last just one generation

 

I agree. The OP seems to run the line of gun regulations. As they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people...sometimes they use guns, knives, clubs, et.

In the same regard, Alchohol itself is not evil. How people use it is. All things are lawful to the Christian, but not all things are profitable.

 

I see no problem with alchohol. I see a serious problem with the abuse of it. Just like I don't see a problem with water but see a serious problem for those who drown in it.

 

I've posted this before, but it pretty much states my official position...

There will be a fight soon on this thread, so I'll post before the flames start:

A sin? I don't know...but for me, it is not wise to drink at all:

• The small potential upside (enjoying a drink) with the large potential downside (risk of intoxication and its associated problems).
  • If I were to get drunk, I could lose my job, and put my family at risk. Too high a risk for a beer.
  • If I were to get intoxicated, I could say or do things that damage my ministry and witness. Why risk it?
• There has been a history of alcoholism in my family background. If there is any sort of genetic basis, why risk it?
• I tell my students not do drink...and then I do? I see that as hypocritical. I'd rather lead by example.
• Drinking offends quite a few Christians I work with, and minister to. I'll take the "Paul and meat" example here, and give up my liberty for the sake of the Gospel.
• Simply, I don't need to drink. There's other options that have no downside that meets my needs.

Wisdom, IMO, is asking God to help me look "down the path" and determine if long-term outcomes honor Him or not. There are too many paths that are problematic for me. I'll pass.

So...is it sinful? Unsure. Is it wise? Not for me, it ain't.

 

I just had a brilliant idea! Since there is nothing wrong with alcohol, we should offer a free glass of bitter to everyone who attends next Sunday's worship service. That should please God. We got some into church that otherwise would not attend.

Well, it makes as much sense as comparing this culture with biblical cultures, and introducing knives in an alcohol abuse discussion.

Most of you were not alive during Prohibition, when alcohol was unlawful. It went underground and fed the crooks and mobsters. So, it reemerged under strict laws.

Laws never resolved the underlying problem. Setting a speed limit on motorways does not stop speeding and resulting deaths. We manufacture faster vehicles. I agree with whoever said that the problem is not alcohol in itself, but the sinful person. Now, how on earth do we convince man of sin, aided by alcoholic consumption, if we also consume it, even if under control? People don't count the number of glasses one drinks, but the fact that they consume alcohol does register.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Does Romans 14 apply to alcohol or not?

 

Many churches DO serve alcohol. It's called communion wine. They serve it with the communion bread. And I don't ever recall in my lifetime there ever being an issue with such churches being accused of inviting drunkenness.

 

Is that the same thing as putting drops of Bitter in my Gingerale?

 

I have no problem with alcohol.​

Mark 7
14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.​

Obviously there is abuse, but this indicates a defiled heart out of which comes the lust/sins of drunkeness, gluttony and over-indulgence which we gratiate.​

Wine is a natural medicine and is good as part of God's creation.
Salt, sugar and butter are also good, but people kill themselves with
it via the abuse thereof.​

I would venture to say that there are at least as many untimely deaths with the improper use of salt, sugar and fat as with the abuse of alcohol.​

The average American consumes 2-3 times the normal salt requirement.
Fat consumption should be less than 10% of our caloric intake.
Sugar, candy, sweets, ice cream. ​

Read the whole article if you dare.​

There is a very real scriptural issue: The sensitivity of the babes in Christ (as pinoy mentioned) at your local church should always get a priority in your decision as to what you eat and drink and how much.​

However, if you believe its wrong to consume alcohol (or be overweight), it is.​

HankD​

 

Drunken Clergyman a "Non-Drinker"

Daily Mail June 29, 2009

"The breath test showed that he was over the limit but he insisted he had not been drinking - apart from Communion wine which he had drunk at four Masses that day.
He also said that he was a non-drinker and that if it was over the limit it was because he had drunk wine during the services he had celebrated that day."