1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Alcohol

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist4life, Sep 20, 2009.

?
  1. 1. I see no problem with alcohol

    7 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. 2. Alcohol is OK, just know your limit

    21 vote(s)
    33.9%
  3. 3. I like a drink now and then

    6 vote(s)
    9.7%
  4. 4. I don't think a Christian should drink outside their home

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. 5. I don't believe a Christian should drink alcohol

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  6. 6. Drinking alcohol is a sin

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    In the equivalent, or worse than taverns for the day...the home of sinners. Did you miss that in the Bible?
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    Yes, I must have. Where was that?
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Matthew 9

    As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, "Follow me." And he rose and followed him.

    10And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. 11And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 12But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."



    Mark 2

    saying, "We never saw anything like this!"
    Jesus Calls Levi
    13He went out again beside the sea, and all the crowd was coming to him, and he was teaching them. 14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, "Follow me." And he rose and followed him.

    15And as he reclined at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners were reclining with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, "Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 17And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."



    Luke 5

    27 After this he went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax booth. And he said to him, "Follow me." 28And leaving everything, he rose and followed him.

    29And Levi made him a great feast in his house, and there was a large company of tax collectors and others reclining at table with them. 30And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?" 31And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."



    Luke 15

    1Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them."
     
  5. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    Yes, what's your point? He is in Matthew's house. A man that was just before called as one of Jesus' disciples. Somehow I don't think that is equal to going into a bar.

    Jesus called Matthew as a disciple. He then went to Matthew's house to eat. Matthew went and got his old friends and said, "Hey come listen to what Jesus has to say. He'll change your life!". That is not even close to the same thing as Jesus going into a bar.
     
  6. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    LOL - You don't know much about tax collectors in Bible times, do you??
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I would suggest brushing up on your history...it was not the same, IT WAS WORSE!
     
  8. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    I know that Jesus called one to be a disciple and Jesus changed his life. Why do I need to know much more than that?

    Before I was saved, I did some pretty crazy stuff. I'm amazed that I didn't die from overdosing, a car accident, being shot, or plenty of other things. But, once I was saved, I was changed. I didn't go to my old friends and tell them to come on over and have a party with alcohol, drugs, etc so I could tell them about Jesus. I told them about Jesus on my new terms, which doesn't include any of the old sinful ways. Do you think that Matthew, who was just called as a disciple, is going to bring the tax collectors into his home to speak with Jesus and just let them go crazy?
     
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Atleast going to the local bar doesn't always mean I'm around crooks.

    Jesus going into a tax collector's home?? Oh yeah!
     
  10. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    And I suggest you read the passages you provided. Where does it say anything about the tax collectors acting in a sinful manner?

    I love how you always use this passage to try and say that Jesus hung out with people while those people were in the middle of being hell raisers. The passage doesn't indicate anything of that nature. It simply shows us that Jesus came to save all people, not just the people that appear to be living correctly.
     
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Let's take a look and see how much time went by between the call and Jesus eating at Levi's house:

    As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, "Follow me." And he rose and followed him.

    10And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. 11And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 12But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."


    It is not telling us that Levi had a whole life change, does it? Additionally, what did the Pharisees say? "Why does your teacher sit with tax collectors and sinners?" Yep - they were sinners. Jesus sat with sinners.
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I did read them, that is why I gave them. It is clear you have blinders on...do with it as you wish :wavey:
     
  13. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    We have no idea how much time passed between Levi being called and being at his house. I can tell you, that Jesus only needs a mere moment to change a life though.

    Yes, I agree that Jesus sat with sinners. The person's house he was in was a sinner whose sins were forgiven by Jesus.

    Again, the point is that Jesus going to eat inside Matthew's (a saved person) house is not the same as Jesus going into a bar. It's silly to even try and make the comparison, or to try and say that the environment inside of Matthew's house after he was saved was worse than the environment in a bar.
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Though the results of drunkeness are more spectacular and yes, more far-reaching, IMO, overeating is not a "red herring" and it's not just overeating (gluttony) but any and all bad habits of consumption of any substance (alcohol, tobacco, sugar, salt, fat).

    If our bodies are the temple of God is it proper to house God in human lard, harden our arteries, develop diabetes, hypertension, stroke and a host of other diseases in an untimely fashion unecessarily?

    Several in churches I have attended have died an untimely death because of the disregard of their body (the temple of God) due to obesity and/or an undisciplined appetite.

    In terms of hurting loved ones, one brother (in particular) a few years back developed diabetes, lost his legs and then his life while only in his 40's leaving his wife and children without a father. Had he been more disciplined with his diet he probably would be alive today.

    The same for heart conditions, vascular diseases and several others.

    While it is true that many of these diseases have a component of heredity, many are overweight or obese and sick for one reason; overeating due to an undisciplined appetite.

    Again, and admitedly the outcome of drunkeness has a wider scope of tragedy than gluttony and undisciplined consumption of any substance, that is a given. However a lack of moderation and gluttony is a sin, and a sin is a sin.

    People eat themselves into an early grave with food as well as alcoholics and their drink.


    HankD
     
    #94 HankD, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  15. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    Why do you avoid the question? I'll ask again.

    Where does it say anything about the tax collectors acting in a sinful manner?

    I think it's a valid question. You are asserting that the environment was much more sinful inside one of the disciples houses than it would have been in a bar. Where does Scripture support that?
     
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Question...if Matthew was already saved at that point, why did they question Jesus' divinity further down the road? Why did they return to their own lives after Jesus' death? I think a question can be raised that they were not saved until after Jesus appeared to them after His resurrection.
     
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Did you even read the text?!? They were classifed along with the sinners...Jesus even implied they were "sick" in need of a physician ALONG WITH the "sinners". Why are you trying so hard to make them righteous?!?
     
  18. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    I'm not making them righteous. I'm just saying that there is nothing to indicate that they were committing open sinful acts while at Matthew's house listening to Jesus. Were they sinners? Of course they were. We all are. Were they actively engaged in open sinful behavior at Matthew's house while Jesus was there? I doubt it.
     
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    According to you, they would be since they were drinking wine. That is why I suggested studying the history of the day.
     
  20. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    Where have I said that it was sinful for them to drink wine, or for that matter for anyone to drink wine?
     
Loading...