Alien Immersion?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Jul 25, 2003.

?

Does your church accept members who were immersed in these denominations?

  1. Historic infant baptizers (Catholic and Eastern Orthodox)

    5.0%
  2. Protestant infant baptizers ( Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Lutheran, Reformed)

    20.0%
  3. Traditional non-infant baptizing (Mennonite, Brethren, Campbellite)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Cults (Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses)

    5.0%
  5. Charismatic Denominations (Pentecostal, Assemblies of God, Church of God)

    25.0%
  6. Bible Church

    45.0%
  7. None of the above

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    A poll of how many churches represented here accept or don't accept alien immersion and what is considered "alien."
     
  2. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
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    None of the above, not even other flavors of Baptists.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Could have used "more than one" option of choices. We sometimes accept immersion from other churches of like faith and practice.

    Like a Bible Church or an Assembly of God or a Free Church.
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    How does one choose in this poll? For example, the Church of England does allow for adult immersion as an acceptable baptism. In fact, they often immerse converts on the mission field, and any who choose it. I can't select this field because not everyone is fully aware of Anglican polity and practice.

    On the other hand, JW's immerse, but it is meaningless as a witness to one's conversion experience.

    The underlying principle here is did the person make a confession of faith and conversion, and was their baptism a testimony to that fact. I would accept any baptism by immersion if it met this latter qualification.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. donnA

    donnA
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    We only accept those baptized in a baptist church.
     
  6. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
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    Katie

    Any Baptist Church? How 'bout a baptism from the 1st Snake-handling Charistmatic Prosperity Preaching Baptist Church of What's Happening now.?

    Some non-Baptist Churches are more theologically sound than some Baptists are. I like our rule, saves arguments over the issue of who is and who isn't properly baptized.
     
  7. Dan Todd

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    My dear departed dad was baptized by a woman preacher - one of the few things he could joke about on occasion.
     
  8. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Jim,

    Maybe my question isn't clear enough. I am speaking of a case where a person professed to be a believer in Christ and then was subsequently baptized by one of the churches mentioned. Considering what you said, you would select the Protestant category because you would recognize the immmersion of a believer in a Protestant church to be valid baptism.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Dr. Bob,

    I meant for the poll to allow up to six choices. I guess I'll have to start it all over again because it won't be an meaningful poll with only one choice.

    Mark Osgatharp

    [ July 25, 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Mark Osgatharp ]
     
  10. donnA

    donnA
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    Katie

    Any Baptist Church? How 'bout a baptism from the 1st Snake-handling Charistmatic Prosperity Preaching Baptist Church of What's Happening now.?

    Some non-Baptist Churches are more theologically sound than some Baptists are. I like our rule, saves arguments over the issue of who is and who isn't properly baptized.
    </font>[/QUOTE]They have to be of like faith.
     
  11. Bob Farnaby

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    I suppose my response echo's Jim's.

    Accepting baptism as an act of obediance by a christian in following Christ, it doesn't matter where it takes place, who (assuming a christian) does the baptism, or when it is done as long as it is after conversion and by immersion.

    The key is a profession by a christian, not the entry rite to a particular 'church' ...

    Regards
    Bob
     
  12. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    I agree with Jim and Bob. "Alien Immersion" assumes that Churches other than Baptists are not valid churches. If it is Trinitarian done on profession of faith it is a valid baptism. [​IMG]
     
  13. J.R. Graves

    J.R. Graves
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    Kiffin,

    You wrote: ""Alien Immersion" assumes that Churches other than Baptists are not valid churches. If it is Trinitarian done on profession of faith it is a valid baptism."

    This is exactly the reason Baptist churches should not accept Protestant and Non-Baptist baptism. Becasue of their doctrine, which is non-biblical (a.k.a. non-Baptist) Non-Baptists disqualify themselves from being New Testament Churches. Even Luther and Calvin admitted this: The Augsburg Confession, a Lutheran statement of faith written in 1530 by Martin Luther defined a true church as “the congregation of saints in which the gospel is rightly taught and the Sacraments rightly administered.” Similarly, John Calvin said, “Wherever we see the Word of God purely preached and heard, and the sacraments administered according to Christ’s institution, there, it is not to be doubted, a church of God exists.” By these definitions Protestant churches are not true churches.
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
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    We accept alien Baptism, so long as it was after a person's profession of faith (thus, a believer's baptism.
     
  15. J.R. Graves

    J.R. Graves
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    Bro. Bob,

    You wrote: "We sometimes accept immersion from other churches of like faith and practice. Like a Bible Church or an Assembly of God or a Free Church."

    Think about this statement. Are Bible churches, Assembly of God churches and Free churches really of like faith and pratice as regular Baptist churches. Assembly of God churches believe one can lose their salvation as well as a host of other errors. Free churches and most Bible churches will accept any kind of baptism (infant baptism, sprinkling, pouring, you name it.) They are not like faith and order as Baptists.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    JR - Doctrinal variances on "eternal security" are rampant within Baptist circles as well as some arminian denominations like Assembly.

    Would you reject baptism by immersion from a non-calvinistic baptist church?

    I didn't think so.

    The Free Church of which I was interim these past 14 months practiced only baptism by immersion. I baptized many.

    If one of those dear folks chose to join a new reformed baptist group here in town, should they be REbaptized?
     
  17. Kiffin

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    Hi JR,

    You wrote,

    There are many Non Baptist churches that are more solid in their overall theology than many Baptist churches I know of. The weakness of a Non Baptist paedobaptist church such as a conservative Presbyterian or conservative Anglican church may be primarily on the doctrine of Baptism. Many Baptist churches I know of are weak on such things as salvation. Which of the Churches has more in common with New Testament theology? :confused:


    The same could be said about the majority of Baptist churches in our day and time. Calvin and Luther did view Roman Catholic churches as having valid baptism though they believed their churches were corrupt. What if a Baptist church administers the sacraments rightly but fails to purely preach the Word of God? Is it a New Testament church? What if a paedobaptist church preaches the Gospel in it's purity but fails to administer the sacraments? See, the problem.

    There is no Biblical basis to say that Baptists have a patent on being the only true churches. Landmarkism unfortunately attempts to patch together a form of apostolic succession for Baptist churches that has no basis in scripture. There are no perfect churches or denominations and each and everyone fails in some area.
     
  18. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    The church I pastor rejects baptism by immersion from all non-Baptist churches as well as Baptist churches which hold to Calvinism or Arminianism. Any person coming into our fellowship from any of these churches must be "rebaptized."

    As one fellow put it, we don't consider their previous immersion to be Biblical baptism any more than if they fell in a mud hole.

    In theory, we would not require that the administering church wear the name "Baptist" if it's doctrines were otherwise Biblical; but I have not yet found a church that holds Scriptural theology and practice which is not called "Baptist," though there have doubtless been multitudes so in the past and may well be at present.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  19. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Kiffin,

    But there is a Biblical basis for a belief in church succession. Jesus Christ established the church while here on earth and gave it a commission to preach the gospel till the end of the world. That same commission included the practice of baptism which is the immersion of a believer in water into the Christian faith.

    How, then, can any church which does not administer baptism as commanded by Christ claim to be a church of Christ and commissioned by Christ?

    You say there are no perfect churches. This may be true but you are comparing apples to oranges. There are not any perfect people in this world, but that does not make an ape a person, though apes and people certainly share many of the same outward characteristics.

    By the same token, a true church of Christ may have some flaws and shortcomings. That fact does not authorize Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, King Henry, John Smyth, Joe Smith, Menno Simons, Alexander Campbell, Alexander Mack, Charles Russel, Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen White, John Tomlinson, John Winebrenner or any other man to start a church and claim that it is a church of Christ....even if that church may bear some of the same outward characteristics as a true church of Christ.

    Neither is it necessary for a church of Christ to present a documented pedigree of it's succession from Jesus Christ to prove it's validity, any more than it is necessary for a man to present his pedigree from Adam to prove he is human. Though men and apes have very similar bodily structure any one who observes them both knows they are not the same creature (despite what the evolutionists say).

    By the same token, Christ's churches, despite their flaws and cultural differences, have an observable identity which distinguishes them from the churches of men. And Martin Luther summed it up well when he said,

    "the congregation of saints in which the gospel is rightly taught and the Sacraments rightly administered."

    The only problem is, Luther neither taught the gospel rightly nor rightly administered the sacrements. Ditto for all the other "Johnny come lately" denominations of men.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    Now you have me totally confused! I cannot envision ANY Baptist church that was NOT either Calvinist or Arminian!

    You must be one or the other. There is, by definition, no "middle ground".

    So you are saying you would not accept ANY baptism from ANY church other than your own?
     

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