"All" does not mean all, "every" does not mean every

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by SovereignGrace, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace
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    This was posted by DHK in another thread, and he stated he didn't want to get into a Calvinism v. Arminianism debate in the Baptist Forum. I respect that, but that which I posted was moreso to Israel and the church being the same.


    First of all, salvation is not an opportunity but a calling and a gift as well. It is also not an offer, either.

    He used Jn. 12:32, so we need to examine it deeper to truly understand what Jesus was saying to His people.


    And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

    The word translated draw in that verse means to draw, drag off, metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel.

    That word is a definitive word with a powerful meaning. Jesus does not just call to His children, but also, in one sense of that word, drags them, to draw them with an inward power(Holy Spirit), leads them, and impels them.

    He did not say He would draw them and they could come to Him of the own volition, if they want to, they can reject Him, &c.

    Now, how do those He draws approach Him? In Jn. 6:45, He stated It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

    Furthermore, how do they learn about Jesus? Ro. 10 states How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?

    And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?

    And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

    And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?


    This shows the importance of the gospel being preached. During Jesus' life and ministry here on earth, no doubt the world was populated on every continent. Seeing that the Jews were God's people at the time leading up to Jesus' life and ministry, not everyone who loved during that time knew anything about salvation. Even those who opposed the Jews during their roaming the wilderness for forty years knew not of the need of being saved. They willing served pagan gods.

    I told of John Eliot and his preaching to the native Indians.

    http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/164.html

    Those who died before Eliot preached to them had no knowledge of Jesus, and therefore could not knowing anything about Him, and could not approach Him in light of Jn. 6:45.

    Now a few verses to dwell on.

    If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.[Jas. 1:5]

    Does God gives wisdom to all without exception or is it to those who ask Him for wisdom?

    To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:

    Is this written to everyone in Rome, all in Rome, or to those who are loved by God?

    In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.[Luke 2:1] The KJV states 'all the world should be taxed'. So these shows the proper context of what Luke was stating.

    So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!”[John 12:19]

    Did the whole world, everybody alive at that time encompassing the world go after Jesus?


    I'll let the reader decide.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Do you know how many times this dead horse has been beaten on this board?
     
  3. Rippon

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    The truth is never beaten. I remember in early 2006 after I had been on the BB for a short time --I was told that members had already discussed the subjects I was bringing up. So what? Biblical truths need to be sounded forth --again and again. If you are tired of hearing biblical truths then move on.

    But if you are able to, address his points line by line. A mere sigh or Umph won't do.
     
  4. SovereignGrace

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    DHK stated this:



    So I acted accordingly. Where do we agree? We do we disagree?
     
  5. wpe3bql

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    Guess I was predestinated to believe the OP.










    Which, in fact, I DO!! :thumbs:
     
  6. SovereignGrace

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    My friend, are you a believer in the five points of Calvinism? I gather by this post you are.
     
  7. Doubting Thomas

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    "Is" doesn't necessarily mean "is" either. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  8. wpe3bql

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    Maybe these words, whose actual author I do not know, might better explain my "point" of view about salvation:

    'Tis not that I didst choose Thee,
    For Lord that could not be.
    My heart would still refuse Thee,
    Hadst Thou not chosen me.

    Thou, from the sin that stained me,
    Hast cleaned and set me free.
    Of old Thou hast ordained me
    That I should live for Thee.

    Mine heart owns none before Thee,
    For Thy rich grace I thirst.
    This knowing, if I love Thee,
    Thou must have loved me first.
     
  9. convicted1

    convicted1
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    .............
     
    #9 convicted1, Jun 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2015
  10. Rippon

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    Wonderful truths expressed in that hymn by Josiah Conder in 1836.
     

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