Alleged Colorado Gunman's Family Stands by Son

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    The family of suspected gunman James Holmes said they will support the Ph.D student accused of entering a movie theatre last Friday and not leaving until he had killed 12 people and wounded another 58.
    http://news.yahoo.com/alleged-colorado-gunmans-family-stands-son-205325000--abc-news-topstories.html

    This article is simply being used to start a topic. I am not saying one way or the other they are right or wrong.

    This raises a question for Christians. Is there any time when we should or would abandon one of our children or a spouse because of their actions? Let me bring this to memory. The Father forsook the Son, and In the OT a parent was to bring a child to be stoned for certain things.
    Is there any time when you would or should forsake your own child or mate? Is why and for what and if not why? Are we always expected by the Lord to stand by them?
     
  2. 12strings

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    I would say it depends on what one means by "stand by them." Based on The New Testament emphasis on Grace, forgiveness, loving your enemy, and overcoming evil with Good. I think it would be entirely appropriate and Christian for the man's parents to speak with their son, try to lead him toward repentance, and faith in Christ, and even after such an event, express their love and care for him in such ways as visiting him occasionally, perhaps going to court to offer him emotional support.

    However, if they are in any way defending his actions, or giving him reason to think they agree with his actions, or are "on his side" against the court system...then that would be counter-productive to his own good.

    However, If the goal is pointing him to Christ, I don't think complete abandonment is the answer. And regarding spouses, Paul said to continue living with an unbelieving spouse as long has he or she is willing to remain married to you, the christian.

    ...In addition, in this instance, The mother (understandably) seems to want to withhold judgment on her son untill she knows whether or not he actually committed the accused crimes...That is very understandable...She simply must not let that sentiment take her farther than the facts do, once it is apparent that he is guilty, she will do him no favors by maintaining his goodness.
     
    #2 12strings, Jul 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2012
  3. plain_n_simple

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    Love is the only thing a Christian must do, the OT does not/cannot apply to a true believer
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    What do you mean the OT does not apply to a believer?
     
  5. plain_n_simple

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    A believer is not under the law, but grace. God tells us to listen to His Son's words. "He taught them from the Law and Prophets the things concerning Himself."
     
  6. Amy.G

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    So should we just let the guy out of prison?
     
  7. plain_n_simple

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    He needs a change of heart that only Jesus can give, then when he becomes what God created him to be, love, who knows what way God will direct. He needs grace and mercy that cover a multitude of sins.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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  9. plain_n_simple

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  10. 12strings

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  11. plain_n_simple

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  12. Yeshua1

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    he si stating that under the new Covenant of Love/grace, we would not be able to execute such a person as the Joker Killer!

    That disregards paul, who states in Romans the Lord has given that right to the Government in charge!

    he is NOT saying that the law no longer applies to Christians today, as you and I have gone around on THAT one before!
     
  13. IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)

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    I think a whole different debate could be launched with simply mentioning capital punishment. Does not God say that it is better that a millstone be put about a man's neck if he offend the least of these? (Luke 17:2 in the NT)What about the six year old little girl butchered by this man? If there is no justice served for his brutality, then who's tell what the next headline of insanity may be. I do agree that the love of God must be shown, for Christ did indeed die for all sinners, however, crime rates are up, due in great part to a lack of proper punishment for heinous actions against the public and individuals.
     
  14. plain_n_simple

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    Under the curse, you could think murder all day and it would not be held against you. Under grace, Jesus said if hate is in your heart, you are counted a murderer. A true believer raises the dead. It's about love not judgement. Let the state do it's worldly things, Jesus is my King.
     
  15. IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)

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    Love is by far the mark of a Christian. (John 13:35) I am not denying the need for compassion, however, your approach seems to be that of neutrality. You did not say this, but it's easy for me to infer from your stance that you see no need for justice. Notice the term "justice", it does not imply "hate" when applied properly.

    When Israel forsook the theocracy that they were privileged to have and chose rather to be under the ruling of a king, that form of government was a reflection of the former position of God in their government. It was established by Him, beginning with Saul. It was by no means perfect (a far cry from the intended institution of authority), however any form of authority is a reflection of the ultimate position of God.

    What I am trying to say is that God's justice is to be carried out at the hands of authority appointed by him (He is also capable of carrying out his own judgement.) It is not vengeance, but sin requires a detterrent. You can love a child all you want, but it is not until you correct him that he will discontinue lying, stealing, etc.

    Quite frankly, how many criminals have been released "forgiven" as you say, and gone out to only butcher another number of victims? Capital punishment is not vengeance, but is justice to the murderer and the victims.
     
  16. freeatlast

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    I agree with you. We can stand by them, be there and speak the truth to them and show them love, as a spouse or parent while at the same time not standing with them in their sin making excuses or attempt to get off.
    Most would agree that this requires the death penalty so if we hold that for another then if one of our own would do it we should hold the same for them while standing by them less we prove we are a hypocrite.
     
    #16 freeatlast, Jul 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2012
  17. freeatlast

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    So was God unloving in the OT by giving the law and the death penalty? BY the way the death penalty came before the law of Moses.
     
  18. plain_n_simple

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    Capital Punishment is the law, to carry out justice. The NT says the Law is not just. Two opposing statements. Jesus is representing God. God is not judging and dealing out justice through another channel. He is not working through two different means. It is only Jesus, and grace, and love, of which the Law has none. The top states for executions have seen a rise in violent crimes, the opposite of its intention. The bible tells us the law would do this.
     
  19. Amy.G

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    So what should be done with him in the mean time?
     
  20. Amy.G

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    What are you talking about???

    1 Peter 2:13–14 (ESV)
    13 Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.

    Try using scripture.
     

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