Altar Calls

We make sure that they realise that they were sinners, jesus died on their behalf, and that by faith alone and grace alone they receive Him to get saved!

Even though we affirm that God is sovereign and that H elects those who are saved by his grace, trust me, we preach Jesus and the Cross, we do not ask the person if they think it was cal or Arm theology that just saved them!

 

I think I can stay away from the reformed or arminian thinking here...and I think this issue is much more simple.

Corporate worship gatherings are not for the unregenerate. In fact, if we are tailoring our gatherings to non-Christians, we do not have a worship service. Since that's the case, there's no need for an invitation.

Now, of course, there could be non-Christians in attendance. And there will (hopefully) be those in whom the Spirit is working during the service. I think it's fine for there to be ministers or other leaders available to counsel those folks, but the time after the sermon should be a time of congregational response to what has just been preached.

 

You have asked these questions before, and I answered you, and you agreed with me back then

Altar calls are all through out scripture.. it is a call to respond to the message, whether in the middle or the end doens't matter, an opportunity to respond is there. You can not plead for people to act and not let them.

The 'altar' is representitive spiritually. An understanding about the OT altar helps understand better the representation used in modern 'methods'. Here is a rough draft of old paper I did on it for school back in '93.. I'm on my laptop at work so I don't have the final paper with me, but this is stored (for some odd reason) in my files here.

That dusty old Altar.

A quick look at the Temple of Solomon.

The place of worship
1. The outer Courts
.....A. Those not devoted to a relationship with God.
2. The inner Courts
.....A. The people - Those who desire the relationship.
.....B. The Priests - Those who help others acquire it.
3. The Altar
.....A. 15 ft high, and thirty-ft long. (the tabernacle was smaller) It has a flat top and a horn on each corner for hold the sacrifice, to drain blood.
4. and the Holy Place (within it the Holy of Holies)

Four basic things that made it more the than just a place of metal or stone.
1. It was a place of active faith.
.....those who believe and follow the Lord will come to such a place. It's a place where faith takes action.
2. It is a place of public statement, acknowledging God.
.....A public profession by the display of action.
3. A place that destroys self and brings about humility.
4. Where the altar was, there was worship, and it visually displayed God was moving in the midst of the people to those who stood near by (believers or not).

The Pictorial Encyclopedia of the bible, by Merrill C. Tenny says this about the altar. Quote "The covenant code (Exod 20:24-26) clearly recognizes a plurality of altars, implying that the object was an almost indispensable accompaniment of formal worship, and that sacrifice, which was inseparable from worship, and all forms of approach to the Deity could not be made without an altar." There could be no worship without a sacrifice and there was not sacrifice without an altar.

Thus no relationship was possible without this simple but profound item.

Yet that was the Old Testament and we are under the New. We no longer need altars to sacrifice. The need regarding these purposes of altars is great, and more now than ever. While I will take this a bit further than the phrase is intended hopefully you will see my meaning made a bit clearer as you follow along. The OT. is the physical representation of the spiritual aspect. (New Test) Let me explain:

We know that worship is no longer in the Jewish Temple, but is in Spirit and Truth. To the Jew the Temple became an Idol rather than a place of remembering God and His provisions and a place of learning and honoring him and of rememberance of our promises and commitments made. But that artifact like the Temple itself became more than it was created for..

According to I Cor. 6:19 ‘we’ are now the Temple of the Most High God, But the Temple can not be complete without the altar. And that altar is to hold your sacrifice. What is your sacrifice? (Rom 12:1)

An important point to remember is the altar of sacrifice was always out in the open. You could never and would never find this kind of altar inside. It was always outside for all to see that you were committing something unto the Lord. The only other altar mentioned in the Temple is the altar of incense, and it was in the Temple itself (the Holy Place) representing the prayers of the people. This is the most beautiful picture of a believer. Outwardly displaying a need but inwardly seeking the Lord. Not giving great prayers for all to hear, but being there for all to see. (example - Luk 18:10-14) And this will allow others to respond as the Lord leads them (whether for themselves or on behalf of others with prayers or exhortation, ect...); thus we can function and walk in Spirit and Truth as a body and not just individuals. Is that not how the church is 'supposed' to function?

There is much more.. but it basically illustrates that the same 4 aspects of the altar above (OT) are seen in the representation or symolism of the altar language (used for the front of the church) used today, not speaking of the artifact itself, but it's position and peoples attitude and actions made toward God in relation to it. ... again, it was my rough draft, which was basically jotting down points and thoughts in a basic format so don't be to harsh

 

Agreed, though we need to preach to, or give opportunity in our messages (though not 30 minutes every message) for those who aren't saved to respond as well.

However I think you misunderstand the point of the invitiation.. calling people to believe and repent, is only ONE aspect of an invitiation, another and should be most emphasized, is the believers are given the opportunity to respond to the message.

 

Would you take a few minutes and list those scripture passages where you see an altar call or invitation?

If you hold that the sermon is the invitation, or that the altar call is within the message, I'm fine with that.

But I don't see a separate invitation in Peter's Pentecost Day sermon. (His message was actually interrupted). I don't see it in Paul's Mars Hill sermon (although he did call on all to repent).

Let me ask you to comment further on your response to jaigner:

What kind of responses by believers do you look for? Going down front to pray? Going down front to shake the pastor's hand and rededicating one's life? Going down front to ask the pastor to pray for you about a matter? What do you think?

I guess I've seen some preachers so desperate to get a response to the invitation, any response, they'll create reasons to walk the aisle.

I even had a preacher urge folks to go to somebody else in the auditorium and tell them how much you appreciate and love them. Now there's nothing wrong with that, but during an invitation?

I guess that's one of the reasons I asked what kind of responses we should be looking for from believers.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: I had the same questions There is no such thing anywhere in scripture...this was nothing more than "strange fire"

All of these outward physical measures do nothing to hasten the work of the Spirit.

 

I would like to see scripture that forbids an invitation.

 

This is not a blatantly scriptural issue, but a theological one. In my opinion, the whole "invitation time" is a poor choice.

 

Brother, they may been performed differently in Texas than here, but if they're done the same way there, blah. Theatrics here.

 

Why you would not believe it even if in the bible?

 

I know it's late into the discussion, but this question just occurred to me:

Do any of you draw a distinction between altar call and invitation?

If so, please explain.

 

Again, every time you have a plea to respond you have an invitation whether to unbelievers to repent and be saved or to believers regarding whatever the message was about. Why did Peter preach at Pentacost unless he desired a response from those people to whom the message was given. Why else would we see him continue after telling them to repent and be baptized, to exhort and testify to them.. "telling them to save themselves from this perverse generation".

Or Paul beseeching the unsaved to be reconciled, or pleading for believers to yield themselves unto God, ect...

Where do you see Peter's sermon is interpreted?.. he stood up and address them all in one tongue. However why do you presume Peter was preaching, and in the Holy Spirit no less? Was it not for them know the truth and respond to it? If not, what other reason do you presume?

Paul also did such, and his plead to repent shows just that.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I find it sad you have to even ask such. I guess my question is - Do the people in your church not pray together consistently and often for one another? What do they pray for each other for? I can find no where in the NT where the body was not involved in all manner of prayer for various issues, and where they (as a body) were of one heart and mind.

I find it odd that most of your questions on this are about going to the pastor to pray or going to the pastor to shake his hand and rededicate their life(??). The pastor is there like any other councilor up front or deacon or elder they would speak with if they had any questions.

I have found, and the majority of the pastors I know (though obviously it does not speak to the majority of all) will tell you the same, that so called decisions made secretly in the seats rarely manifest in the pew (ie. their life).

I've not been privy to such pastors or people so much. An invitation (altar call) is given for the people to respond publicly.. if they don't, (all those I know as well as myself and most of those I have seen) then close the service and praise the Lord.

Why not?
Who are you or I to question what God has laid on 'his' heart to do.
I have once (as the invitation itself) told people to turn to the person next to them and ask if God is working on their hearts about something and 'if' they would like that person to pray for them. No singing, no music, just people praying with one another. Interestingly enough, it was apart of a week long revival service I was doing and the pastor still to this day tells me how much that service has changed his peoples hearts towards one another and prayer has become the theme of this little NW Arkansas church. Other aspects happened but this is just a point I'm making. There is no order of service and do's and don't do's for pastors when preaching or giving a plea for a response.

 

I have never heard of anyone who does

 

So says the one who cannot understand 1Jn. 3:9. :laugh:

 

I know the type you are talking about. Twenty minutes while the pastor screams and begs for a response. That's not what I am talking about.

 

You really need to choose you put downs with more care.
I don't think you realize that aspects is in direct relation to the fact that those who set forth ON PURPOSE and in willful opposition to God, was done so by non-believers. Your equation places anyone who disagrees with your opinion places them as unbelievers.

Correct, but can you state they are not the manifestation of the work of the Spirit of God?

 

I hope no one is arguing for that

 

It is in the same place it is today, even in the house church that I am currently the pastor of. You have missed the point entirely of my previous post and you seem to have forgotten the cultural aspects already ingrained in the people of that time. The majority of personal commitments, repentance, prayers, ect.. were all done openly or publicly, before the people and before God. To assume this suddenly stopped and became a silent and private thing over night whereby the people (more specifically the church) was not witness to and apart of, turns a blind eye to the culture of that time both pagan and Jewish.

You need to go back and re-read my post as no where in there do I state there is a literal altar on which we continually present a blood sacrifice and specifically state we don't sacrifice anymore and that the altar I'm speaking of (and others) is symbolic or representative.

Perhaps your being a bit to facetious or maybe it just seems you are being over dramatic in the above and not actually dealing with what is being discussed. Who is 'building' altars to begin with?