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Alter Calls

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by God's_Servant, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I ask again, what altar? Where is the altar in a Baptist church? And how is a piece of wood a means of connecting with heaven?
     
  2. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Bolded mine

    (Good question!)

    Perhaps kissing a crucifix----!!!????:smilewinkgrin:

    Motes in eyes, planks in eyes; awful lot of opinion being "scripturalized" in this thread!!!:rolleyes:
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    It sounds as if there are quite a few Roman Catholic Baptists in America.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I had one pastor who insisted we had to have a "mourners bench" up front!
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Was thinking the exact same thing. I remember MANY years ago insisting my church had an 'invitation' after every service. Where did I get that?
     
  6. dcorbett

    dcorbett Active Member
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    Tom Butler, you said:
    That is my point about the dog and pony show that some modernistic churches put on. Light shows, dancing, live bands, all this is unnecessary. Preach the Gospel, pure and true, and people will come. Churches are hospitals for the lost, and if you give them anything else as a substitute, it is wrong and belongs in the world, not in church.

    And no, I am not a legalist, I am someone with convictions and values. I didn't say a word about your salvation. That is between you and the Lord. I am saved by grace alone, not by works. But let your light so shine before men.
     
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Ya know it's funny that many of them are Calvinists, not only from our time but even going back to men like Spurgeon and others.
    Though Spurgeon's was 'slightly' different he still called them forward to deal with whatever God placed upon their hearts or to come up afterward to speak with him. He also endorsed men like Moody who did what is commonly see today.

    What is commical is that the term 'altar' is KNOWN to simply be symbolic, refering to a place where one did business with God and that place was always before the people and not hidden away. And yet it people like you and others on here still try to make it something literal :laugh:
     
    #47 Allan, Jan 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2010
  8. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Uh.. maybe from Christ who always gave men the opportunity to respond?

    Or maybe from the apostles who also gave men the opportunity to respond to the messages they gave. Otherwise what is the point of giving your message.. to hear the sound of your own voice?
     
  9. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    If I may, to those who are against alter calls, that it is not so much the alter call itself which is the issue (because it is nothing more than a plea to respond to the message) but it is more 'how' or the manner in which the alter calls are done, and for what reason "some" seem to be done. That is really the isse and not the alter call itself.

    And to the above I understand and agree with 'that' issue.
    If people think walking to the front saves, if they think just praying a prayer saves, ect.. then it is not result of an alter call (as some assume) but if this be the case, it is the result of very poor or a miscommunication on the part of the minister and whoever else.

    As for the reference to an 'altar', it is symbolic to that which the altar was know for.
    I posted this once before but here is again:
    Even after the ultimate altar sacrifice in Jesus, we find Paul using altar language in Phil 2:17 and 2 Tim 4:6-- I take it to mean the sacrifice of surrender and obviously not a literal altar.

    As a figure of speech, I personally see nothing wrong in using the altar-language, depending on the context.
     
    #49 Allan, Jan 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2010
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Indeed.

    Even over at the Reformed Baptist Seminary Blog, they find biblical support for what they call the "family altar". Remember those? How many of us have found an alternate plan for that too?

    "If there is no altar in the house, is it right to call it God's house at all?" —Chales Spurgeon, Bringing Sinners to the Saviour
     
  11. paul wassona

    paul wassona New Member

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    Did Abraham build altars? Yes. Did others pray at these altars?Undoubtedly, because so many later followed his example. Now,do we see Abraham building any altars in Egypt? Was Abraham a Catholic? Are you like Abraham in Egypt and no altars, or like him when he came back to Bethel? Would you like your altars made of stones or of wood and cushioned? Allan, I like your sentiment for the people of God and the altar! I learned critics don't smile when in practice, I'm smiling!
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Altars don't belong in the NT church...
    The only altar that matters was the one Christ died on as our final sacrifice. The OT altars were shadows of the real thing.. Calvary.

    The Altar has become an idol in our churches today. Instead of people basing their salvation on the finished work of Calvary, they base it on when they knelt at the Altar.
     
  13. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    I've said it before...the beauty of the new covenant is it took us out of the temple and put the temple into us...

    we aren't an old covenant people
     
  14. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Until people realize the building is NOT the church.. and has nothing holy about it..
    And until people realize WE are the church, and God NOW resides in us...

    People will continue to worship material things, and miss what it means to be the church.
     
  15. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    "I fear that some of our orthodox brethren have been prejudiced against the free invitations of the gospel by hearing the raw, undigested harangues of revivalist speakers whose heads are loosely put together." —Charles Spurgeon, On Conversion as Our Aim

    "...if we were to leave untouched everything that is capable of abuse, and to disallow practices which rightly conducted tend to good, simply because some have gone in for too much of that good thing, we should unnecessarily deprive ourselves of much that is lawful and should curtail our efforts in the prosecution of the King's business. Many a time it has been my joy to see the nail which was driven home by the sermon clinched by the after talk..." —Thomas Spurgeon, The Sword and the Trowel, Jan. 1882.
     
  16. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    It 'seems' that you don't understand what the 'altar' means.

    It is sybolic and it's sybolism remains constant even in the NT.
    Again, I restate:
    How can there be a sacrifice if there is no altar? NOT a particular item but a place in which give openly. It can be up front, in back, or in side rooms but it is symbolism not literalism.
     
    #56 Allan, Jan 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2010
  17. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I'll agree with that Allan..
    I am talking more about the way Altar calls have been given... with the 123 repeat after me stuff Paul Washer preaches against..

    Many are going to Hell because they thought they were saved when they walked the aisle, knelt at an old fashioned altar, and prayed through. Unless they realized they were a sinner, and received Christ, they wasted their time.

    Symbolism yes.. Material no.
     
  18. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    I believe you are exaggerating. I can show you the exact spot where I accepted Christ, the front pew of a Baptist church. I don't however base my salvation on it or reverence it in any way.

    I praise God that the preacher had an alter call the morning I was saved. I might have left unsaved. It was often reiterated in this church that going forward did nothing as far as salvation was concerned, but to go forward and pray about a particular problem never seemed wrong to us at all!
     
  19. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    I understand now more what TinyTim was saying in that some who use the 'altar call' do not do so in a manner that 'explains' salvation properly. These types emphasize you 'must' walk and aisle, and you 'must' pray 'their' prayer or you will not be saved.

    I have had a VERY hard time helping people understand the difference when they really do state their salvation was either 'walking an aisle' or praying a certain prayer. Now praying is both right and good but if you ask them to tell you why they think their saved and they state 'I prayed a prayer' PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE.. follow up and ask how did the prayer save you? You will find in many cases where they will say - I don't know or shrug their shoulders.

    When a person doesn't know when they were saved (I'm not talking about minutes and seconds here but the place and moment) or worse - why they were saved.. someone needs to present the gospel to these people in a way that expounds sin, reveals our depravity and deserving of hell, as well as the purpose the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. That it is our crying our His mercy and total and absolute depenance upon His finished work that saves, which of course is so done through prayer. And if God is working in/on their hearts they can be saved.
     
    #59 Allan, Jan 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2010
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Hence my use of quotation marks around the word invitation. I just don't the connection between a Biblical invitation to come to Christ and the modern Finneyesque 'altar call.'
     
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