Am I the last to know??

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by tamborine lady, Dec 24, 2004.

  1. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady
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    [​IMG]

    I just heard about a book and I wondering if anyone has read it? It is:The Last Disciple by Hank Hannegraaff and Sigmund Brouwer

    It's about the fact that revelations has already occured and it's the first of a series.

    Has anyone read it and if so what do you think about it?

    Working for Jesus,

    Tammy

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Brett

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    About the "fact" that revelations has already occurred?
     
  3. liebeskind

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    I read it, and it states some good point, but it missed the mark. Revelation Starts like this:

    1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    2: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw . (What Jesus saw)
    3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
    4: John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is , and which was , and which is to come ; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
    5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
    6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
    7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him , and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
    8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord , which is , and which was , a nd which is to come , the Almighty.

    The Book of Revelations is the Testimony of Eeshoo M'sheekha, of what was, what is, and what is to come. He has not come yet. He has not come in the Cloud, and Satan has not been Bound.

    Eesho M'sheekha also stated that "as it was in the days of Noe, and as it was in the days of Lot, so will the days be when he returns, to Renew the earth by destruction. Revelations is not just a history book as he stated it, it troubled me when I got into the book, but his theory is not harmonious with the rest of the word of God. Keep in mind that it was not just for those of that time, and don't be spun by the fleeing judea line. I think it is important for everyone reading or going to read this book to have their bibles handy for Hermeneutics (I prefer the KJV)!

    Ron
     
  4. KenH

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    I have recently purchased the book but I haven't read it yet but I hope to do so in 2005. But I don't think the idea behind it is full preterism - everything in Revelation has occurred - but rather partial preterism - most of Revelation has occurred except for the basically the last three chapters.

    Before I read this book I am planning on reading The Consummation of the Ages by Kurt M. Simmons, which interprets Revelation from a full preterism viewpoint.

    A great site to learn more about full preterism, as I am just starting to do, is http://planetpreterist.com .
     
  5. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Brett said: About the "fact" that revelations has already occurred?

    Tammy says: Those are the words of the Authors, not mine.

    I tend to agree with Ronald, Revelation is still to come.

    God Bless,
    Tammy
     
  6. Grasshopper

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    I have read the book. Hank H has come to the partial-preterist view. I heard recently that is is a 3 book series. I enjoyed reading it.

    1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass ; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    2: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw . (What Jesus saw)
    3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    In John's day - "What was" includes the first coming of Christ - something we see in the Rev 12.

    What "is" was the 7 churches and the persecuted church (we see this in Chapter 2 and 3 and in Chapter 12) of John's day.

    What "is to come" included

    1. the dark ages (Rev 11, 12) due to the rise of the Papacy,

    2. the rise of the United States as the single world - super-power (Rev 13),

    3. the last judgment - the judgment seat of Christ (Rev 14)

    4. the 7 last plagues (Rev 16)

    5. the 2nd-coming (Rev 19) that includes the "First resurrection" (Rev 20)

    and "more besides" -- Rev 21-22.

    John's book covers a lot of territory - as does Daniel.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. steaver

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  9. KenH

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    Any interpretation that basically takes the book of Revelation out of almost any relevance to the seven churches of Asia to whom it was addressed should be rejected.
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    Hank Hannegraaff is the same dude who runs the website (Christian Research Institute) that is sourced here by many on the BB quite frequently that calls EVERYONE (especially charismatics, etc.) else a cult. He seems to think everyone is a wolf in sheep's clothing but him. :rolleyes:

    He also is the same dude who has questionable financial practices of his organization. I rejected ANYTHING this guy said ages ago and still do.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    :confused: :confused: :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]Rev 11 and 12 talk about the religious power that rules for 1260 years during the dark ages that followed the rise of the papacy.

    Rev 13 speaks of a new power that arises at the end of that 1260 year reign in the dark ages - it arises after the first beast - the composite beast in Rev 13 that is in fact a composite of the 4 beasts in Dan 7. (The composite beast of Rev 13 arises out of the sea as do the 4 beasts of Daniel 7.)

    Rev 13 says that this new power arises out of the earth - whereas all other powers of Daniel 7 (and the composite "first" beast we see in Rev 13) arise out of the sea.

    In Rev 17 we are told that the sea symbolizes a multitude of nations and wind blowing on the seas (as we see in Daniel 7) represents war.

    So the New power that arises out of the land (less populated by comparison to the combination of Europe, North Africa and the middle-east) - starts out speaking like a lamb - coming from a relatively unpopulated area of the world, arises afte the dark ages (late 1700's) and then eventually rises to single-world-power dominance.

    There are other "clues" in the chapter as well.

    This idea was presented from Rev 12 and 13 long before America was a significant world nation much less a Superpower or "the only Superpower". It was presented by premillenial Christians at a time when most Christians in America still opposed the idea of a premillenial return of Christ.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Grasshopper

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  13. steaver

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    How do you get from "two witnesses prophesing 1260 days", as the scripture states, to a religous power that rules for 1260 years?

    Presented by who? Can I read their writings today?

    God Bless! [​IMG]
     
  14. don 3426

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    I have heard that some believe that revolation has already occured, and i have heard of the way ppl have "translated" the numbers in the book. I was told by a non- believer (i am going on that by what his views were "salvation by works" which isnt right, its by faith) he said that the number 666 translated to the name "nero" which i could not find how he got 4 different letter from 3 of the same number. But i do not belive that revalation has occured because the the scripture speaks in future tense and does not explain why i am still here if it already has occured.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    In Rev 11 you have the two witnesses (OT and NT) being trampled for 1260 prophetic days (1260 years --- just like Daniel 9 has 70weeks that represent 490 prophetic days = 490 years).

    In Rev 12 we have that SAME period of time mentioned and it is clear that it occurs after Christ came the first time and was taken to heaven.

    In Dan 7 where that SAME period of time is also referenced we see that it starts after the Roman empire splits into 10 primary parts and 3 of the primary 10 are destroyed by what later dominates the dark ages - and all of that empire for 1260 years.

    It is placed in scripture so many times - it is impossible to miss.

    Rev 13 picks up at the end of that 1260 year period of persecution and begins with a composit beast having a part of each of the 4 beasts mentioned in Daniel 7.

    That's the easy part.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. SpiritualMadMan

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    Lady Eagle, I tend to strongly agree. Especially after what was done to Dr. Walter Martin's Legacy and teachings...

    However, while the amount of worthwhile material may be scare... There is no doubt some good stuff he has and is putting out...

    As for this book on Revelations... I think he has gone off the deep end...

    After all anyone who thinks the US is gonna hold it together long enough to become a one-world super power?????? Simply got ta be a loon!

    But, that is just the type of talk Al Queda and other US detractors love to hear and use against us...

    So, possibly, not just a loon... But, possibly, a traitor...

    (After all many believe he was a traitor to the Martin's...)
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Hello!

    We already ARE THE One World Superpower!

    That is not the hard part of the problem "anymore".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. BobRyan

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    True enough - you have to doubt every assertion he makes - and believe only what you find in scripture. He tends to be looney when he listens to himself too much.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. FriendofSpurgeon

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    One of the best books on the subject is "The Last Days According to Jesus" by RC Sproul. I would encourage all to read.
     
  20. tamborine lady

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    The best book I have ever read on the subject is the bible!!

    Peace,

    Tam
     

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