Americans Ignorant of Our History/Heritage Study Reports

RevMitchell Said:
"This is just in complete error. Prior to these tests kids were graduating not able to read two sentences. Teachers are government employees and responsible tot he tax payers. They need accountability. Especially with the extreme left wing teachers Union involved."


==I'm not really sure how to respond to that since all indications are that students are getting worse. The eog tests are not solving any problem. If you think teachers "teaching to the test" is a good thing then I don't know what to say. I know very good elementary school teachers who have had their lessons destroyed over the past dozen or so years by being forced to "teach to the test". Standardized tests are the single worst way to judge a students knowledge and performance (in any subject at any level).

Btw, I teach undergraduate students. Allow me to assure you that they still can't "read two sentences" much less write a meaningful paper. They don't know how to take notes, study for exams, think logically, nor are they able to analyze information. Most of today's public school graduates are woefully unprepared for college. But should we be surprised? After all standardized tests don't test a student's ability to write a meaningful paper or think logically. Teachers can't spend time teaching those skills when they have a limited amount of time to teach what students need to memorize (not learn) to pass a standardized test.

The eog multiple choice tests are a joke.

But if you think they are a good measure of performance...:tonofbricks:

 

So you have students who cannot read? I doubt it. So where are these indications or are those stats coming form the teachers union? Teachers need accountability. and it appears the history that lead up to the standardized testing is being revised.

It is a false argument that students are memorizing instead of learning. The evidence is that they do not have the answers tot he tests in advance. Ad to that I know for a fact that reading comprehension s on the tests.

In the end I do not care how the accountability is done. Whether it is by these tests or some other standard. But what ever it is we need to be able to see what students are doing as the progress through grades. And we need teachers to be accountable to teaching Reading Writing and arithmetic. Pick the standard I don't care what it is. But teachers do not need to have a free hand.

 

==I, and other college instructors/professors, have plenty of students who cannot read at the college level or compose a paper without massive amounts of spelling and gramatical mistakes. We are not talking about emails or messageboards, we are talking about papers that they had plenty of time to write and proofread. If you could read some of the stuff we have to read on an almost daily basis you would know what I am talking about. It is shameful.

==I don't have stats, I have a knowledge of teachers who have and do teach in the public schools. Good teachers who can't do their jobs because of massive amounts of paper work, being forced to teach the tests, and attend way too many workshops.

You keep singing the praises of the standardized tests. Yet you have yet to confront the fact that those tests only test the lowest level of human knowledge. They don't test a student's ability to analyze what he/she has learned nor do they test a student's ability to think critically or examine all the facts. They certainly don't test a student's ability to compose a halfway decent paragraph or paper.

If you think the standardized tests are good, you must not be in education. :laugh:

==No, it is the facts. I am not arguing anything, I am just telling you what very good public school teachers say is happening and what I saw when I worked with undergraduate teacher education students at a state University. I also know a lady who is one of the writers of the NC EOG exams. Even she is highly critical of the tests. Of all the teachers I know I can't think of one (elementary, middle, high school, or college) who thinks the current system is a good one. Beyond that the proof is in the pudding. The average public school graduates are not ready for college or the workforce. The standardized tests that you think are so great are simply not working. Why? Because they test isolated facts that students are forced to memorize. Students should be taught the facts in the context of learning how to study, write, and think critically. A standardized M.C. exam cannot do that.

==Teachers know what is going to be on the eog tests. That is what they base their curriculum on.

==That is an insult. Not because you are saying that public school teachers should be held accountable, of course they should, but because you are assuming that prior to standardized eog tests there was no accountability.

As a college instructor I don't have to deal with eog tests (etc). However I am still held accountable. Maybe the public schools could look to the colleges for ways to hold their teachers accountable while allowing them to teach the subjects instead of a test.

 

That's right. Teachers were not accountable prior to the standardized tests. And there are still those who are pushing for teachers to have the free hand collage professors have. Whether it is an insult or not I suppose is a personal thing.

What you failed to acknowledge in this post was that I said I do not care how the testing is done or how the teachers are held accountable. But there needs to be a standard parents can see the results. That is who they need to be accountable to. In the end the liberal teachers union will demonize any standard that holds teachers accountable to parents.

And again your statement that you have students that cannot read is most likely hyperbole. It is impossible that a student enters collage and cannot read.

 

==You know how parents can hold teachers accountable? By being involved in their children's education.

==Only barely, I have plenty of students who can't write a college level paper. I place the blame for that on the public schools, the standardized tests, and the parents.

 

That is what "college" is for.