Americans Oppose Cities That Give ‘Sanctuary’ To Illegal Immigrants

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Revmitchell, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. Revmitchell

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    San Francisco has long prided itself on being a “sanctuary city” that refuses to work with federal authorities to identify and deport illegal immigrants. But now city officials are arguing over how far that policy should go when some of those illegal immigrants are charged with murder and other serious crimes.

    New Rasmussen Reports national telephone polling finds that most Americans oppose sanctuary cities and think their policies lead to an increase in crime. A solid plurality say such cities, including New York, Washington, D.C. and many others, should lose government funding because of their sanctuary policies.

    Given consistent findings that Americans overwhelmingly support efforts to crackdown on illegal immigration, it’s not surprising that 68% of U.S. voters oppose the creation of sanctuary cities. Only 13% favor the creation of cities that give safe haven to illegal immigrants. Nineteen percent (19%) are not sure.

    More Here
     
  2. billwald

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    Unless the illegal commits a felony municipal police have better things to do than look for illegals.

    Do the people who think that a city of refuge is illegal also think that God was in error to establish them in Israel?

    Is a church as a place of refuge also an evil concept?
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    No they don't.

    You have no true concept of God at all do you?

    Protecting those who unjustly and illegally come into this country is evil
     
  4. donnA

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    police have better things to do then look for criminals?
    like what, eat more donuts?
    this is about the stupidest thing, police have better things to do then arrest criminals.

    And where do we have God in writting stating these US cities are to be places of refuge for criminals?
     
    #4 donnA, Nov 28, 2009
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  5. windcatcher

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    The sojourner was expected to abide by the laws of Israel. The temple was never open to uncircumsized gentiles as sanctuary(illegal aliens).

    The sanctuary laws of Israel required the person seeking sanctuary to identify himself to the authorities before seeking assylum.
    Those who didn't seek sanctuary were open season to those seekign revenge.....bilwald..... to embrace one is to embrace the other so you also agree to this last? Even you acknowledge that these laws operated under God's direct and ordered authority. These laws could be a pattern for man's government but they haven't been received that way.
    ------------------------

    As for the church.... it is always a refuge for those souls who were lost. It is not a refuge for criminals who remain in their sins. The church is not a social instrument of the state. It's sole authority comes from the head which is Christ and its purpose is to be a light unto the world and glorify Jesus Christ.
     
  6. tinytim

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    I just want to comment on this...


    Neither is it to be an instrument of the federal government. The church has a history of being places of refuge. Think of calling out "Sanctuary, sanctuary"...

    It's purpose is exactly what you said, but sadly, if an illegal came to many church's this morning.. the Pastors and deacons would be faster to worship the Federal government instead of worshiping God.

    They would be more concerned about making sure they weren't illegal, than introducing them to Jesus, and letting Jesus convict them of their sins...
     
  7. Salty

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    #7 Salty, Nov 29, 2009
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  8. faithgirl46

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    I beg to differwith you. Illegal are arrrested because they come into the country illegally not legally
     
    #8 faithgirl46, Nov 29, 2009
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  9. targus

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    The issue is not whether the municipal police are "looking" for illegals.

    The issue is that certain cities have a policy of protecting illegals from Federal laws.

    When you were an officer on the streets what did you do when encountering an illegal driving without a license and without insurance?

    Did you send them on their merry way?

    If you wrote an illegal citations for those things what did the court do if they did not show for their hearing?
     
  10. windcatcher

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    Illegals who have identity documents by which they work.... are often in possession of stolen identities. Though they may pay taxes, it creates a confusion in a system which follows SS numbers for reporting income and taxes...... a potential problem for those who already have those valid numbers legally. LEO should be concerned and involved.

    OTOH, I'm not entirely clear as to who determines the right of citizenship within the state.... I need to review my constitution but it seems each state has a say as to who can be a legal resident of the state.... As much as I am for the laws of our land in protecting our borders.... I'm also for a return to the states those areas of government not specified by the constitution for the national government.
     
  11. billwald

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    Keep in mind that being here is NOT a felony. It is the legal equivalent of spitting on the sidewalk back when spitting on the sidewalk was a misdemeanor. If you want being here without proper documentation to be a felony then insist that it be mad a felony.

    Police officers use their district coffee shop to work on paperwork. Would you prefer that they leave the district and return to the station for this necessary task?

    An officer could probably write five or ten speeding tickets in the time it would take to process the arrest of an undocumented alien. Which task would make a greater contribution to citizen safety?

    Now, if the proposal was to install speed cameras and red light cameras on the freeways and main roads to free up some traffic officers for neighborhood patrol . . . that I support.

    Why is it that I can never stir up any support for traffic control and safer freeways? Alternatively, it might be fun to post all freeway entrances, "enter at your own risk." Let the insurance companies sort out the carnage. You all so love insurance companies that you trust your health to them in other areas.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Dealing with the illegal criminal aliens
     
  13. billwald

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    Not responsive. It is not a crime to be here without proper documentation.

    Just to stir the pot, the simplest solution to the undocumented alien problem would be a national ID card.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    Bub it is a crime to be here having crossed the border illegally. They are illegal criminal aliens. They are law breakers from the start. And we have got to have control over our own borders. Do not tell me about the legality. I have arrested more illegals and sent them back to the border patrol than I can remember.
     
  15. windcatcher

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    Generally speaking, the officers are not specifically going after illegal aliens. But, when a traffic stop or in the course of their other duties an illegal alien is identified or suspected, it ought to be within the scope of their duties to apprehend and secure until identity can be established, particularly if this occurs as a part of other charges.

    I know a guy who was stalking a pastor 30 miles from his residence. He had interrupted church services once and was viisiting the church grounds and talking with the membership as they arrived or left church to leave.... engaging in debate and trying to insinuate that the pastor who is his neighbor was unscriptural... a false charge. He trys to manipulate others into thinking he was going to church to worship. However, there are churches closer to home and I and others have invited him to go with us and he refuses. (I would refuse to let his behavior or dress intimidate me if he would go with me..... but I would not allow him to disrupt the services without gettin help to escort him out. He may sense that determination in me.) A 'no tresspass' order was arranged with LEO for the protection of the church, its pastor and the membership.

    This guy disregarded it and visited the church grounds once more on a Sunday... on his motocycle, dressed like a bum with holey jeans, dirty fannel shirt, long and dirty hari and beard and smoking and tossing his cigarette butts on church grounds and engaging church attendees in conversation which was harassing and causing them concern. The law was called and he was sent to jail and remains there after failing to cooperate with the authorities regarding plea determination or hiring his own lawyer or accepting a state appointed attorney. He's charged with a misdemenor. He's my brother, the pastor is my brother-in-law and we are all neighbors. His bail at $1000 is small and the $100 it would cost me to bail him out would be cheaper than the gas for the weekly visits to jail or my paying his light bill so his refrigerator isn't cut off or his pipes don't freeze. He has enough funds to get an attorney, pay his bail, purchase decent clothes, keep his hair and beard trimmed and even hire a housekeeper...... but he doesn't. His trash piles up in the corner and he keeps a pet in a cage he doesn't clean nor give attention to except to water and feed. He is not balanced in his thinking so i love him and visit him but I support the decision of my family and will not enable him in thinking he's in the right, whether he can reason or not; his behavior is odd to others and does provoke the perception of unknown intent with possibility of presenting a serious threat to others..... as well as perhaps a demonic intention to thwart the ministry and calling of God upon another.

    He's been held since Sept 20th and will have another court date in January..... on the misdemenor charge. When he settles with the court and the county, I suspect that his charges will include reimbursement for his jailed time as well. We are all in hopes....... and I would appreciate the prayers of those who see thiis... that God's will will be done and that this will work to help us get him some help and/or a safe placement. Though this doesnot belong in this thread...... except as an example that even a misdemenor charge may incur jail time when there's mitigating circumstances surrounding the original charge.

    In the case of holding illegal aliens in a county jail, the effectiveness of this probably requires a practical cooperation with the immigration services, perhaps a willingness to cover some or all expenses, and a willingness to assist in the investigation and prosecution. A misdemenor may not be as serious as a felony, but where the law is not upheld by boundaries and consequences it is an encouragement for a repeat and gives courage to others to assume they can get the same privileges by being a non citizen OR representing themselves as a non-citizen so that the misdemenors normally charged to those here legally, get dropped for them out of convenience and economics.... and lack of cooperation with immigration and the state dept.
     
  16. billwald

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    This person sounds like a mental case. It is not nice to be around crazy people. Crazy people are frightening. It is dangerous to live in a free country.

    Unfortunately the choice seems to be between being afraid of your neighbors or afraid of your government. I'll take my chances with crazies and undocumented aliens.
     
  17. Johnv

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    We don't check peoples' legal status or criminal record at the door. If we find out one of our members is committing a crime (and that need to be first hand, not from chatter or gossip), then we will reach out to that person to assist them in turning from that. Unless their acticity is turning out to be damaging to other members of the church, we won't bar them from attentence.

    Frankly, it seems silly to bar such people from church, especially when they are the ones most in need of the church.
     
  18. windcatcher

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    My purpose in this example is to show that a person with only a misdemeanor can be jailed and held. If the only reason a person is stopped is due to exceeding the speed limit, running a stop sign or no tags on a car..... because of which LEO becomes aware of his illegal status.... which is a crime.... some here say a misdemeanor.... it should be sufficient cause that he be apprehended and jailed and turned over to immigration. As mentioned in the article, some might have committed serious crimes and should not be in a position to count on sanctuary.

    Unfortunately, if what I've read concerning deportment is true.... then immigration has to find a country willing to take them before deporting them, which begs the question..... What country wants to take back a serious criminal and incarcerate him or let him be free to commit other crimes when another can already hold him? Once he's paid his 'time' here for a crime.... how can a person here illegally and with a criminal past be deported if his country refuses to take him back..... and how do we hold him , except in jail, if he's here illegally and unqualified for citizenship?
     
  19. windcatcher

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    I believe the article also questioned the incentive of federal funds. Without getting into a discussion about whether the states and localities should be receiving federal funds..... yes, I believe some penalty should be adjusted on such sanctuary cities as they are operating against the security and economic interest of our country in harboring illegal aliens. If their lack of proper identification forces them into positions where they can not find legal work... the economy here will force them into positions susceptible to criminal influence or risky work where they have no occupational or health coverage and places us in a position of potentially caretaking of them for the rest of their life.
     
  20. billwald

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    The US has more people in prison than any other civilized country . . . more than one out of every 100 people. Would you all feel safe if it was 2% in the slammer? At around $40k/year?
     

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