Amillennialism Debate - Part Four

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by DeafPosttrib, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    Someone closed Amillennialism Debate - Part Three. Because, there were so much criticizing each other.

    I would like OldRegular and Trailblazer, better stop use term, "Darbyite" or "Dary followers", because you seem offend their feelings. Please respect premills, what they believe.

    Also, I ask to all premills, please stop telling amills, that amill is heretic and gnostic. Please respect amills, what they believe. How can you PROVE that amill doctrine is heretic and gnostic? Amills already present ton of verses from the Bible to you. Why do you think amill doctrine is heretic and gnostic?

    Dr. Bob says, amill doctrine is also part from cults. Not always. Even, premill teaching is also invlove in some cult groups. Premill teaching is NOT always cult, same with amill teaching is not always cult.

    Again, Eschatology doctrine have do NOTHING with salvation. Both premills and amills believe Jesus Christ, the same saviour, who died on the cross for our sins.

    I ask you, please respect each other in love. [​IMG] No attacking each other, no criticizing each other. Please debate friendly with God's Word. [​IMG]

    Later, I will reply back what Ed saying of five judgements.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    I will carefully monitor this thread to assure that discussion focus on ISSUES not on people.

    (BTW, I did NOT say amill was from cults; I said that Catholic and most cults believe that allegorical interpretation of eschatology. Just want to start out with the record straight.)

    And the word "heresy" will get snipped no matter WHO uses it. As will other banned terms (like "liar" that disrespect our members.

    IF someone feels they are being falsely attacked or maligned, please let me know asap by personal message.
     
  3. Watchman

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    DPT. I left the conversation long ago because of the difficulty in answering everyone of Trailblazer's points because of time constraints.
    I was also concerned about the tone. What was the deal anyway about Darbyite's? I never understood the name calling. Even a fellow premill's tone concerned me.
    But I am writing now to commend you ("Give honor to whom honor is due") you have taken a Christ-like attitude in seeking to keep it civil.
    As far as the topic is concerned, I always seek to take each passage literally UNLESS there is overwhelming, compelling, reason(s) to seek another explanation for a passage. I do not see such compelling reason in Rev 20.
    But apart from the thousand years mentioned in Rev. 20, there are just so many other compelling reasons, in Scripture, that makes the premill position the best fit.
    But this is echatology. The Divinity of Christ, the virgin birth and other essentials are not in question here. Amill's are brothers. That's the way I see it.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    Watchman: "But I am writing now to commend you ("Give honor to whom honor is due") you have taken a Christ-like attitude in seeking to keep it civil."

    Amen, Brother Watchman -- Preach it ! [​IMG]

    DeafPosttrib always seems ready to explain the faith that
    is within him.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    posted March 03, 2005 02:06 PM by Dr. Bob                       
    The dispensational paradigm was the product of pre-millennial teaching that has been part of the church since the NT. It is not a "new" teaching, but a synthesizing grid to help folks understand pre-mill thinking.

    Amill was predominant in the church as the only teaching of Catholicism (and its reformation offshoots). It is the teaching of almost all cults. That is not really the source I personally would like to herald as "best".

    If it is Catholic doctrine, it is suspect to most Baptists for certain sure!

    I for one am thankful for men like Walvord or Scofield and Dallas Seminary (with whom I've worked in the past) to help those who have believed in historic pre-mil thought to see its overlay in this manner.
     
  6. Plain Old Bill

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    Everything I've read about the Amill position has them all over the place so I guess I really don't understand thier position very clearly.
    I would like to see something short and sweet that is fairly clear and definitive on the Amill position. Maybe it could be done in 20 paragraphs or so.
     
  7. Plain Old Bill

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    Buy the way I've been reading all four parts of this debate and am now more confused than ever about the Amill position.
     
  8. James_Newman

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    Anybody know the score?
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Now I am being called a liar without, of course, using that banned word (read Old Reg's post above):

    I stated as this new thread began = "BTW, I did NOT say amill was from cults; I said that Catholic and most cults believe that allegorical interpretation of eschatology. Just want to start out with the record straight."

    So what DID I say back in the closed thread? = "Amill was predominant in the church as the only teaching of Catholicism (and its reformation offshoots). It is the teaching of almost all cults."

    And so? I SAID it was the teaching "of" almost all cults.

    I DID NOT SAY it was "from" a cult. That is just slightly different. My oh my. :rolleyes:

    Come on guys, we're trying NOT to attack here and deal with issues. Start shooting at the deer in your backyard, not the moderator here.
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

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    Care to explain John 6:39,40,44, & 54 - "LAST DAY", what it mean to you?

    Care to explain John 5:25-27 - "HOUR" what it means to you?

    I am not discuss about religions, cults, I am discuss God's Word only. I am showing truths from the Bible, not by my own opinion or guesswork. I understand what God's Word saying. Why cannot you accept clear teaching from Jesus Christ saying that our resurrection shall be on the last day of the age?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    'day' = the appropriate time
    'hour' = the appropritate time

    John 6 'last day' = John 5 'hour'.

    Neither delineate a specific measurable amount
    of time. The First Resurrection denoted in
    Revelation 20:5 lasts for 1 day = 7=years:
    a resurrection/rapture at the start of the
    Tribulation day and another resurection
    (probably with a small rapture) at the end
    of the 7-year-day. The unjust will be resurrected at a day and hour of God's plan
    probably after the physical Millinnial Reign
    of Christ.

    DeafPosttrib: "Why cannot you accept clear teaching from Jesus Christ saying that our resurrection shall be on the last day of the age?"

    I accept it. I also accept that that day will be
    7-years long. Being the border day, it is
    both inside the age (the last day) and outside
    the age (an inter-age period).
     
  12. Dave

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    EE

    '1000' = the appropriate time. You left that out [​IMG]

    Based on all uses of the number in the bible that is the most likely meaning of it.

    I have a question. You readily accept day and hour in the above passages to be figurative, but not millenial reign in Rev. 20. What do you base that on? With the exception of Johnn 6:54, the above passages are very straitforwad statements with no hint that they should be taken any way but literally. Revelation 20 is full of spiritual symbols. Isn't it more likely that the language of Revelation 20 is more symbolic in nature while the language in John is more literal?
     
  13. Dave

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    Oh and one more observation

    James 4:6
    But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble

    1 Peter 5:5
    Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble

    I hope we all bear in mind that Christians are supposed to be humble, preferring others over themselves. If all our conversation is characterized by grace, then I think we will all get along in these discussion much better.

    In Christ
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you.

    Dave: "You readily accept day and hour in the above passages to be figurative, but not millenial reign in Rev. 20."

    You haven't kept up with what i've said. Go find it yourself.

    Dave: //1 Peter 5:5
    Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble//

    If you are over 65-years-old i yield to your
    elderness.
     
  15. Dave

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    EE

    Sorry, I am not over 65 and will defer to you on that level [​IMG]

    The point I was trying to make (I guess I should have bolded it) was the God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. Humility is difficult to maintain but if we all practiced it, then a spirited debate would not turn into a mean-spirited debate as this has in past threads.

    I was only trying to add my voice to DeafPostTrib's.

    As far as not keeping up, I will look back and see what I missed.

    Dave
     
  16. OldRegular

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    You left out the most significant part of your statement about amillennialism as noted below. Ther reader can judge your opinion of amillennialism for himself.

    posted March 03, 2005 02:06 PM by Dr. Bob                       
    "The dispensational paradigm was the product of pre-millennial teaching that has been part of the church since the NT. It is not a "new" teaching, but a synthesizing grid to help folks understand pre-mill thinking.

    Amill was predominant in the church as the only teaching of Catholicism (and its reformation offshoots). It is the teaching of almost all cults. That is not really the source I personally would like to herald as "best".

    If it is Catholic doctrine, it is suspect to most Baptists for certain sure!

    I for one am thankful for men like Walvord or Scofield and Dallas Seminary (with whom I've worked in the past) to help those who have believed in historic pre-mil thought to see its overlay in this manner."
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    Tha;nk you Dave. I'm 61. wait 6 montns and
    i'll be 62 [​IMG]

    I see you are a peacemaker. (peacemaker is
    better than elder, all it takes to be elder
    is to WAIT)

    Matthew 5:9 (KJV1611 edition):
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall bee called the children of God.

    May Iesus be gloried in your peacemaking
    Brother Dave, Child of God.
     
  18. Charles Meadows

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    The dispensational paradigm was the product of pre-millennial teaching that has been part of the church since the NT. It is not a "new" teaching, but a synthesizing grid to help folks understand pre-mill thinking.

    Interesting thought. I agree that some of it is not new teaching.

    I also agree with the concept that it is a "synthesizing grid" - but I think to a certain extent it is a synthesizing grid created so that many scriptures can be interpreted literally. Without such a system the literal interpretation of many verses in Revelation leads to confusion.

    In the amillenial position these scriptures are taken in the appropriate OT context and thus they are easily related to one another without the modern fundamentalist constraints that insist on literal interpretation.

    :D :D
     
  19. Ed Edwards

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    Charles Meadows: "In the amillenial position these scriptures are taken in the appropriate OT context and thus they are easily related to one another without the modern fundamentalist constraints that insist on literal interpretation."

    Lovely. The three major a-mill positions
    properly interpert the Old Testament. Unfortunately they leave much to be desired
    about the New Testament.

    BTW, nobody has in these four threads every
    explained to me SO I CAN UNDERSTAND about the
    three major banches of a-mill:

    1. post-tribulation rapture a-mill
    2. peteristic a-mill
    3. mystic a-mill

    (not that any holing to one can explain
    the other. any one of the three would be good.)
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    Bob clarifies - Is there any debate on whether amill is the "theology" of Roman Catholicism? Is there any debate on whether amill is the "theology" of almost all cults [LDS, JW I know for sure; SDA would not]?

    If there IS debate, now is the time. Old Reg, everyone knows my position on amill. I'm just saying that when Catholic/Cult support a doctrine, I usually run the other way!!
     

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