Amos 4:4: Three years or three days?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by robycop3, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
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    Amos 4;4, KJV...Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:

    The NIV reads 'three years'; the NASV & HCSB among others read 'three DAYS'.

    Which is right? is this a gross mistranslation one way or the other?

    The Hebrew here rendered 'years' or 'days' in the respective versions is 'youm', which a rabbi advises me means 'a measure of time' or 'daytime', opposite of 'nighttime'.

    Using Strong's, I see the KJV renders it 'day' at times, 'year' at others, depending upon the context. I believe 'years' is more correct in Amos as tithes were not offered all that often as compared to other sacrifices.

    Whadda Y'all think?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    The word can be used either for days or years. It is not a gross mistranslation either way. This is found in a series of ironic commands (Chisholm, p. 88) which illustrates the hypocrisy of Israel in going through the motions of keeping the commands without having a heart of submission.

    My preference is "years," because the tithe was a yearly issue and it took three years to complete the tithing cycle, since one tithe was only offered every third year.
     
  3. Logos1560

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    Amos 4:4c in old 1380's Wycliffe's Bible
    in three days your tithes

    Amos 4:4c in 1535 Coverdale's, 1537 Matthew's, 1539 Great, 1539 Taverner's
    your tithes unto the third day

    Amos 4:4c in 1568 Bishops' and 1611 KJV
    your tithes after three years

    Amos 4:4c in 1853 English translation of Masoretic Text by Issac Leeser
    after three days your tithes

    Amos 4:4c in 1917 Holy Scriptures According to Masoretic Text published by Jewish Publication Society
    your tithes after three days

    Amos 4:4 in Spanish Reina-Valera
    tres dias [three days]
     
  4. robycop3

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    I concur. While not ENTIRELY wrong, it's akin to the KJV's using 'Easter' in Acts 12:4. While that's not ENTIRELY wrong, given the uses of Easter in the early 16th C, before Tyndale coined 'passover' it's a poor use, considering 'passover' was by 1611 in extensive use. The 1599 Geneva has 'passover'.

    What makes 'days' stick out like a sore thumb in some MVs is that they ARE MVs & don't have the excuse of changed word meanings as the KJV does with Easter.

    Anyone fully supporting the reading 'days'?
     
  5. robycop3

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    Thanx for your info!
     
  6. Eliyahu

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    1. It seems that you don't know about the background for Acts 12:4.
    It must be Easter ( Ishtar) not because Resurrection Day was called Easter ( King Herod never celebrated the Day of Resurrection for Jesus!), but because King Herod respected Ishtar Festival and the Ishtar Festival was called Pesach in Hebrew and was translated into Paska as well. P Jensen, German scholar discovered a lot of monuments where he noticed the ancient celebration of Ishtar Festival, worshipping goddess of Babylon.
    I already explained about this in other threads and don't want to waste much time for this.

    2. Do the Israelites went to the temple every 3 days to pay the Tithe?
    Yom was correctly translated into Year more than 10 times in OT, I estimate. One example is Exodus 13:10.
     
    #6 Eliyahu, Dec 22, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2006
  7. Eliyahu

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    I think Amos 4:4 is talking about Deut 14:22 and 14:28.

    22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

    28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: 2
     
  8. Eliyahu

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    If Acts 12:4 is translated as many MV's and NKJV do, we encounter a serious problem witn Acts 12:3, which says it was already Days of Unleavened Bread. How can Passover occur after the Days of Unleavened Bread?
    If we read the rest of the chapter, how could Peter travel quickly afterwards?
    Ishtar Festival which was very well celebrated by the kings of that times took place right after the Passover ( or almost the same time but one day later and the emphasis was made on the Sunday after the Passover).
    Should we call the Day of Resurrection as Easter?
    Should we gather together in the name of goddess Ishtar?
     
  9. go2church

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    NRSV - days

    ESV - days

    TNIV - years

    Lean toward years, TNIV Study Bible notes that it may be a reference to a tithe offering mentioned in Duet. 14:28 and 26:12 that was collected every three years
     
  10. robycop3

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    'Tis well ya don't wanna spend much time with the Easter thingie because it's incorrect. There's not one quark of evidence Herod observed any feast to Ishtar. And even if he HAD, why would he bust Peter in the first place while it was going on? And 'pesach' is the word GOD USED TO MOSES when He ordained the passover observance.

    MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH...............

    I lean more toward 'year' here, given that tithes weren't paid every week, let alone not every day.
     
  11. Logos1560

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    Are you claiming that Luke also produced a serious problem in Luke 22:1
    [Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover]? Are you claiming that there is a serious problem with Ezekiel 45:21 that refers to passover as "a feast of seven days?"

    Perhaps you are the one ignoring the context at Acts 12:1-4. The passage does not actually say that it was Herod doing the observing. The context shows that Herod saw that his actions against James pleased the Jews, which implies that he also intended his actions against Peter to please the Jews. How would Herod observing a pagan celebration supposedly please the Jews? Is it not obvious that Herod was waiting until the Jews finished observing their Passover, which included the Days of Unleavened Bread, in order to please the Jews when he brought Peter forth after passover?
     
  12. Eliyahu

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    It was already in the Days of ULB, and the Passover was the first day of DULB. In such case, I don't think the writer say after the Passover. Then it should have meant Peter was to be handed over after Days of ULB.
    In Luke 22:1, does it distinguish between Passover and DULB? No. Passover was heading DULB, while Acts 12:3 indicatesd it was already DULB. If we read 12:4 as passover, then it means the next days were still DULB. We read 12:17 where Peter departed immediately. I don't find any clue that Peter departed even during the DULB.
    Your logic can stand only when we accept that DULB=Passover, but if we distinguish between Pesach and DULB, it cannot stand. In other words, what you are saying is that Passover in 12:4 = DULB.
    But the true believers thru Waldenses have interpretted that the Pesach was not the pesach for Passover but the one for Ishtar and the Ishtar Festival was so popular as we have Christmas today, at that time. KJV reflected such belief.
    From the Bible we may not necessarily find he celebrated it, but apparently we read that he intended to hand over Peter after Paska. Doesn't it mean that he cared about that event? The more story behind it is that kings of Middle East at that time considered the festival as an important ceremony and such interpretation coincides with the verse.
    If you cannot believe it, it is up to you. God knows the truth and I believe what I said is correct as I heard from the true believers like Plymouth Brethren.
     
  13. gb93433

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    I take the position based on the context of the book that Amos is being sarcastic and it is a bit or irony.

    The LXX and MT use three days.
     
  14. robycop3

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    The thing is, the Jews wouldn't have taken over custody of Peter during Passover. OTOH, they had the ROMANS take over custody of JESUS during passover. They didn't wish to defile themselves so they couldn't participate further in the passover. (John 18:28)



    Now, was passover/paska/pascha just the one day? Not according to what GOD told Ezekiel:

    Ezekiel 45:21, KJV
    In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

    Thus, the DULB are as much passover as the paschal lamb meal.
     
    #14 robycop3, Dec 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2006
  15. Eliyahu

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    John 18:28 doesn't mean that Passover was already passed, but it was coming and it became almost the day of Passover. This doesn't support your claim at all.

    Ezekiel 45:21,KJV
    KJV doesn't say that Passover =7days DULB, but it says Passover, a Feast of 7 days; DULB. Ha-Pesach, Hag shevuot. That means 1 day Passover + 7 days DULB.
    Do you know that DULB lasted 8 days instead of 7 days? Pesach was the start of the DULB, then another 7 days were included as DULB, the total days were 8 days. This doesn't prove Pesach =DULB. It was often mixed together because Pesach was the first day of DULB.

    Read 2 Chron 35:17

    17 And the children of Israel that were present kept the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days.

    This is the same case with Ezekiel 45:21

    As for Pesach and DULB, the main explanation is in Lev 23:

    v 5; 14th day even was the Pesach ( Passover)
    v 6 ; 15th day was the DULB which lasted 7 days
    v 8 : on the 7th day of the first month was another Holy Convocation.


    Many monuments in Babylonia area prove that there were so many practices of goddess worship for Easter ( Ishtar) in M.E. region, and even during the reign of Herod, it was quite popular. Please refer to P.Jensen and his book.
     
    #15 Eliyahu, Dec 23, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2006

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