An all-too-obvious parallel

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Jan 17, 2004.

  1. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
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    * The time is the early 17th century. The earth, as far as anyone knows, is the center of the universe.

    * The Church supported this based on a few isolated verses of Scripture falsely interpreted.

    * Galileo and Copernicus using basic knowledge and common sense discover that the earth actually revolves around the sun.

    * Indeed, ALL planets revolve around the sun - the earth is no more special than the others.

    * The Church begins to preach against this heretical view.

    * The Church says that the Word of God is the only thing they can be sure of, so all other information must be misinterpreted.

    * Even when the Church admitted their mistake, many refused to believe despite the mountains of evidence that proved that the earth was not the center of the universe.

    * Knowledge allowed people to know Truth. Those who were scared of Truth refused to consider knowledge.

    * Even now, some still ignore the mountains of evidence and believe in a flat earth, living a life of ignorance and are metaphorical ostriches with their heads in what they hope and know to be a still earth.

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    * The time is the early 21st century. There are those who believe that the KJV is the only true word of God.

    * Those who believe this support this based on a few isolated verses of Scripture, falsely interpreted.

    * Christians, using basic knowledge and common sense, discover that the documents used to translate the KJV are faulty in some places, and work diligently to uncover what was written in the original documents.

    * Indeed, ALL versions are the Word of God - the KJV is no more special than the others.

    * There are those who preach against the view that other versions are inspired.

    * This minority says that the KJV is the only thing they can be sure of, so all other information must be misinterpreted.

    * Even when KJVO's canont answer pointed-out mistakes, many refuse to believe despite the mountains of evidence that show that there were translation errors, document errors, and even admissions by the translators of the KJV themselves.

    * Knowledge allowed people to know Truth. Those who are scared of Truth still refuse to consider knowledge.

    * Even now, some still ignore the mountains of evidence and believe that the KJV is the only word of God in the English language, living a life of ignorance and are metaphorical ostriches with their heads in what they hope and know to be a still earth.

    -------------

    Quite a parallel, huh? The good news is that 99.999999 percent of the world knows the Truth - that the earth revolves around the sun and is not the center of the earth. One can only be diligent with the Truth to see 99.99999999 percent of believers come to understand that God was as much in the translation of our modern versoins as He was in the KJV.
     
  2. Precepts

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    Scott,

    I don't believe I would make God look so foolish. As far as God is concerned the Earth is the center of the Universe, so much that His Son came and died on the cruel Cross of Calvary for the sin of creation.

    Just as Israel is the "apple of His eye", yet His sole attention is not limited to Israel alone, but all mankind, even though His attention is "centered" in this universe on this planet earth, yet He is as certainly aware of the rest of the expanse and every aspect as well.

    Your "paralell" is limited in it's thinking, so obviously you think the KJB to be in error, but you fail to see the truth.

    Now, let's see your "paralell" in the discerning of a man's heart. I suppose too, that you will start making the claims that the KJB is wrong to indicate the pulmanary muscle located in the left center of your chest has nothing to do according to the passages in the KJB?

    We know the heart muscle isn't what is referred to, but it's not limited to just the mind, simply because the will and emotions are involved.

    The soul of man does exist, right? If not then Jesus dying for men's souls is according to Ted Turner, a mistake.

    Since you like these "paralells", would you please try to explain the "soul"?

    The earth is the Lord's footstool, the clouds the dust of His feet, now I suppose you'll be looking for His feet in some distant divide, uncharted by mortal man to either prove or disprove the KJB? :rolleyes:
     
  3. robycop3

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    Please read Scott's post carefully, and indicate to us where he attacks the KJV. Not the mss from which it was made, but the KJV itself.

    You're defending against an attack which hasn't taken place.
     
  4. BrianT

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    Interesting post, Scott.

    I would even push it further. Here we have two groups, each trying to promote doctrine that is not directly from scripture. Since neither doctrine comes from the authority of scripture, then simple logic tell us such assertions must be derived from another authority - in the case of the Catholics, the authority is the Church itself, in the case of the KJV-onlyists, the authority is the KJV-onlyists.

    Now, comparing those two sources of authority, we see two interesting things:

    1. KJV-onlyists are "sola scriptura" folk (I have never met a KJV-onlyist who wasn't). Since KJV-onlyists are arguing for the KJV to be the "final authority", yet are imposing their own authority to make the claim in the first place, they are contradicting themselves. Catholics are not sola scripturists, thus do not contradict themselves in this manner (they are not contradicting sola scriptura, because they don't hold to it in the first place). From the perspective of sola scriptura, at least the Catholics are being consistent - KJV-onlyists don't even have that.

    2. Each "authority" needs to have a "claim" to that authority to at least be taken seriously. The Catholic Church points to apostolic succession and to verses, *in scripture*, like 1 Tim 3:15 which says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth. Even if one does not agree with their interpretation or application, at least they have something to point to in the first place. There is nothing in scripture that says KJV-onlyists have a similar authority, and no KJV-onlyist would dare say that they themselves are authoritative - in other words, their own authority to assert KJV-onlyism as a doctrine (a doctrine not in scripture) is completely void of support. At least the Catholics have reasons to claim they have authority, KJV-onlyists don't even have that.

    So *WHY* would *ANYONE* accept the authority of KJV-onlyists in their assertion of this doctrine, when they as a group are both completely unauthoritative and completely inconsistent, *especially* if one is not willing to accept Catholic authority when they at least have some consistency and reasons behind their claim? If one rejects Catholicism, there is even *less* reason to adhere to KJV-onlyism.

    Note: I'm not promoting Catholicism in this post. I'm just showing that *whatever* validity Catholicism has, logically KJV-onlyism has less. It is not a "parallel" in my mind, as the first post puts it - KJV-onlyism doesn't measure up that much.
     
  5. Precepts

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    Ah, but Cranston, you indicate Scott has the nature to attack. We've seen this "creep up" on them style before, so I just went ahead and broke the ice.

    Maybe you can't deal with my questions either?
     
  6. Precepts

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    [​IMG] Same ol'song and dance. [​IMG]

    We fellowship with KJB crowds, won't let anyone preach or teach from another version, but we never had the "attributes" awarded as yall guys do to any of us, but to relate to catholocism as not promoting it, when the "KJVO" crowd ,as yall put it are distinctly Baptists?

    Maybe the viewers of that post will see the insanity. [​IMG]
     
  7. BrianT

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    Well, that's sort of my point. KJV-onlyists claim to be Baptist, but to assert KJV-onlyism requires an authority outside of scripture, since scripture itself does not tell us to believe in KJV-onlyism. And if there is another authority needed to make KJV-onlyism work logically, then you cannot believe in sola scriptura at the same time - yet sola scriptura is one of the Baptist "distinctives".

    Basically: By what authority should we believe in KJV-onlyism? Go ahead, actually answer the question. Surprise us. [​IMG]
     
  8. ScottEmerson

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    That's an absurd statement. In the way you mean, God Himself, not man, is the center of all that is, was or will be. Physically, however, earth is not the center of the universe as the Catholics alleged. The KJV is not God's infallible, inspired Word alone, either, as KJVO's allege.

    It's that I choose to see the Truth that I have seen that the KJB, while a great translation, is not perfect.

    The fact is that the Catholic Church held so strongly to earth being in the center of the universe that they misinterpreted Scripture to make it reality. That's the exact same thing that the KJVO crowd does in anointing their idol.
     
  9. robycop3

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    Originally posted by Quickening Spirit:[p/i]
    [

    Maybe you can't deal with my questions either?

    Yoy mean THESE questions?

    The soul of man does exist, right?

    Absolutely.


    If not then Jesus dying for men's souls is according to Ted Turner, a mistake.

    Since you like these "paralells", would you please try to explain the "soul"?


    The soul is the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life. It includes his/her spirit, conscious thoughts & mental processes.
     
  10. robycop3

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    Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:

    Same ol'song and dance.

    We fellowship with KJB crowds, won't let anyone preach or teach from another version, but we never had the "attributes" awarded as yall guys do to any of us,


    BUUZZZ!

    Just yesterday you told me you did NOT believe the KJV was the ONLY valid BV, but you & your cohorts enforce KJVO in your church or group, whatever the "we" you mention is. Looks like a double standard to me.


    but to relate to catholocism as not promoting it, when the "KJVO" crowd ,as yall put it are distinctly Baptists?

    Maybe the viewers of that post will see the insanity.


    Actually, he was comparing certain KJVO actions to certain RCC actions in the PROCESSES involved and not the actions directly at face value.

    Yes, the viewers might see some of the insanity-of believing the KJVO myth.
     
  11. Precepts

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    Finally something we agree on, the KJVO "myth"

    The "myth" is within your minds, it is an oxy-moron having only mythological attributes.

    KJVO can't exostenciously exist. There are the texts from which the KJB is derived, Byzantine BTW, not alexandrian :rolleyes:

    To believe in KJVO is to believe a myth concocted in the hell bent minds of those who take all sorts of avenues to attack the KJB, all the while saying how much they love the KJB, yet attack passages taken from it trying to prove their myth.

    It's like you guys can't comprehend the truth that your battle is against the very "monster" thought up in your heads.

    We believe the KJB is the Word of God and that allowing other versions to be used always inhibits confusion.

    "Offering better understanding" according to the MV crowd's allusion, when the KJB had the full contextual meaning all along.

    Then making allegations as paralells to catholocism? You people are nuts!

    You don't know what you're talking about and some of us see right through you.
     
  12. BrianT

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    Um, dictionary?

    I believe that 100%! Using other versions always inhibits confusion. "Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures:"

    I use other versions all the time, to inhibit confusion.

    Then it should be quite simple to answer the question: by what *authority* should we believe that only the KJV is the word of God? Answer it in a way that doesn't require rejecting sola scriptura, so as to maintain your "distinctive" from Catholicism.
     
  13. ScottEmerson

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    Do you deny that there are those who believe that the KJV is the only English version authorized and inspired by God, and that it, and no other English version, is Truth? If you do, take a look at a number of posters on this board.

    What does exostenciously mean - never heard that word before. Some people prefer the TR, and that's fine. Some peope prefer the KJV, and that's fine. But there are a number of those who profess Christianity who say that any manuscript set which is not TR and/or any Bible which is not the KJV is heretical. Those people are KJVO's. It is not a myth. To deny that such people exist is to deny that there were religious people in the 1500's who refused to believe that the earth was not in the center of the universe. Both are easily verifiable as fact.

    What are you talking about? People even here on this board profess to be KJVO. Now you are saying those people do not exist? And stop saying that people are hell-bent because they don't line up behind the KJV. That goes against the teachings of Christ.

    Wrong again. The board is littered with those who are KJVO's and they honestly (I must assume), believe in what they post. How have you missed those people?

    Confusion on whose part? Is the NIV the word of God? If I use the Message and you use the KJV, am I committing heresy? Maybe you should begin clarifying either on the board or in your mind what you think about the KJV.

    The KJV is, in some places, extremely outdated. Some of the students I work with are immediately turned off and unable to understand the rhetoric used. However, hand them a CEV, NLT, or another modern translation, and they cannot put down the Word of God. This is offering better understanding to a population who desperately needs to read the Word.

    The KJVO-myth is still a close parallel to the earth-centered-myth of the 16th century.

    I and the other people here know quite easy what we're talking about. Do you have a point here?
     

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