An Answer To Alcoholic Beverages

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by His Blood Spoke My Name, Jun 19, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    In another thread, EdSutton asked if the word alcohol is in the Bible. While it cannot be found in the KJV, there are three Modern Versions that use the Word that I know of. Following are those verses.

     
  2. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would say that this thread has started off "on the rocks" but that might be misunderstood as a terribly bad pun, so I won't say it.
















    :D
     
  3. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, I guess, but I prefer to keep the question in the thread in which it was posted, since that is where it was brought up, adn also since I didn't bring it up, but thanks anyway for the answer.

    I'll not post anymore on this new thread.

    Ed
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    I found this verse posted above very interesting...

    Isaiah 5:22 22 What sorrow for those who are heroes at drinking wine and boast about all the alcohol they can hold.


    Isaiah was declaring that sorrow will befall those who brag about the alcohol they can drink.

    Many on this board certainly do brag about their supposed right to drink in moderation... IOW, the alcohol they can hold without becoming drunk.

    Problem is, they are measuring drunkenness by their own ideas of what drunkenness is and not God's Word.

    God's Word declares that wine and strong drink decieve. Well it certainly has many people thinking they can drink just one glass with no ill effects.
     
  5. Snitzelhoff

    Snitzelhoff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    What's this I see? HBSMN compromising on KJVonlyism to support teetotalism?
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Yeah , Paul told Timothy to drink a little grape juice for his stomach problems .

    Jesus turned the water into grape juice .

    Silly examples could be multiplied .
     
  7. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a matter of fact, Rippon, doctors have proven that the health benefits that are found in wine are found in grape juice prior to it's being fermented.

    The alcohol in wine has been proven to be dangerous to health.

    Jesus did in fact create a wine that was not alcoholic. It was recognized for its taste, not for alcohol content.

    And Timothy was told to drink non alcoholic wine as its benifits were good. But that juice, just like honey, is not good for the stomach if too much is taken.
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Might I add another version?

    The CEV
    22</SPAN>And you are great at drinking and mixing drinks. But you are in for trouble.

    And trouble it will be when they finally realize they have been deceived by that which they ignored the warnings about!
     
  9. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Doctors compare pasteurized grape juice to wine. "Raw" grape juice, which is what you'd drink pre-1800s, can be very bad for your stomach if you happen to get a batch with unpleasant yeast and mold in it. Since yeast and mold grows naturally on all grapes, you need to be careful. It's even worse if you drink "raw" apple juice. E-coli bacteria likes to grow on apples. I can tell you first hand what it's like to get a batch of apple juice with e-coli in it. It's not a pretty sight.

    Honey actually retards the growth of bacteria, so it has a unique benefit. Grape juice not only contains a lot of bacteria of its own, it does not retard the growth of bacteria.

    Wine, however, does retard the growth of bacteria, which is why it was common practice to mix wine with water even before NT times.
     
  10. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    You truly have not done your homework, have you. Try reading the Word of God for starters. It is where you will find Jesus did not drink alcohol. It is where you will find the wine at the communion table and the wine prescribed to Timothy was not alcohol.

    I have spoken to doctors, experts on the effects of alcohol...

    Oh, that's right, you don't believe doctors reports.

    Well, guess since you want ot be ignorant of the truth, as Paul said, let them be ignorant still.
     
  11. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Bible says wine, not grape juice. As I said elsewhere, you are using circular reasoning to read "oinos" as grape juice. You start with the assumption that Jesus would not drink wine, and reason therefore that this instance of "oinos" must be grape juice. Then you declare, "There it is in the Word of God! It's grape juice!"

    In your mind, yes. On paper, no.
     
  12. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your denying the truth that that wine was not alcoholic does not make it any less a truth.
     
  13. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    No assumption at all. It is all assertion based on the Word of God.
     
  14. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and
    death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for all
    have sinned. Romans 5:12

    When man sinned, a vast change took place in his spiritual
    condition. Spiritual and physical death was sentenced upon him
    (Genesis 3:3). Even the animals turned wild, judging by Isaiah
    11:1-8, which shows that the animals will again become tame
    when Jesus Christ restores peace to a sinful world.

    There was also a change in the earth through God’s curse:

    And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened
    unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of
    which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
    cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou
    eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles
    shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb
    of the field; (Genesis 3:17,18)

    Since as this text clearly shows, that the food being brought
    from the earth was to bring sorrow to man, we can see that the
    destructive laws of fermentation was one of a number of
    processes that God put into operation because of man’s sin.
    Although the above Bible text does not specifically mention fer-
    mentation, it must still naturally apply here. Seeing it is
    connected with death, and death with sin. It is therefore obvi-
    ously clear that God did not intend that man should drink in any








    quantity, something which was symbolic of sin and death, and
    which was also harmful to his body and mind.

    Alcohol is not a natural product of the creative hand of God,
    but rather a repulsive agent of sin which man in his unregenerate
    mind uses against himself. Patton quotes Dr. Henry Monroe in
    his lecture on alcohol, as saying:

    Alcohol is nowhere to be found in any product of nature;
    was never created by God; but is essentially an artifical
    thing prepared by man through the destructive process
    of fermentation.


    Exerpt from 'Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence' by Leighton G. Campbell. Chapter 2
     
  15. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hamburger is nowhere to be found in any product of nature;
    was never created by God; but is essentially an artifical
    thing prepared by man through the destructive process
    of killing and grinding up cows.

    Chocolate is nowhere to be found in any product of nature;
    was never created by God; but is essentially an artifical
    thing prepared by man through the destructive process
    of killing and processing cocoa beans.

    Tea is nowhere to be found in any product of nature;
    was never created by God; but is essentially an artifical
    thing prepared by man through the destructive process
    of killing and drying plant leaves
    and then subjecting them to the torture of boiling water.

     
    #15 npetreley, Jun 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2007
  16. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are forgetting npetreley...

    God's Word does give permission to eat hamburger

    but He did not give permission to drink alcoholic beverage.

    2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you

    Fermentation is a symbol of death. It is unclean.
     
  17. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are grasping at straws to fight against the Word of God; a battle you cannot win. Quit trying to justify alcohol in the life of a Christian. God's Word forbids it, you cannot change God's Word.
     
  18. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let us now look at some New Testament passages which
    some say permit “temperate” indulgences in alcohol:

    The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as
    becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much
    wine, teachers of good things; (Titus 2:3)
    Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued,
    not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; (1
    Timothy 3:8)
    Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stom-
    ach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1 Timothy 5:23)
    The Christian must be honest in facing these supposed “dif-
    ficulties,” realizing that irrespective of how things may seem,
    God’s perfect and Holy character and standard will always be
    Untainted, Let God be true, but every man a liar. (Romans 3:3)
    Hebrews 11:6 states:

    But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he
    that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is
    a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    The Christian life is a life of faith, the believer knows (even
    though he does not see everything) that God is what He says He
    is. That is, He is Holy, Pure, Unchangeable, and Perfect. It is hard
    therefore to understand how people who profess to have been
    transformed by the blood of Christ could ever imagine that God
    would sanction the use (in any quantity) of such a deadly sub-
    stance such as alcohol. Some even go as far as suggesting that
    Jesus Christ, God’s perfect Son, turned water into alcoholic wine
    and that He drank alcoholic or intoxicating wine Himself.
    Drunkenness would have been the obvious result or at least
    encouraged, considering the vast quantity of water He changed
    into wine, approximately 120-180 gallons!

    Considering God’s Holy character, there must be a perfectly
    good explanation for the above passages and any others that may
    pose any problem. God cannot contradict Himself:

    Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and
    cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no
    variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:17)
    We will now examine 1 Timothy 3:8, and Titus 2:3, together
    Because of their similarities. They read:

    Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much
    wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; (1 Timothy 3:8)
    The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as
    becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much
    wine, teachers of good things; (Titus 2:3)
    There are those who one reading these texts automatically
    assume that the wine mentioned is of the alcoholic type, hence
    allowing for moderation with respect to intoxication, but this is
    not necessarily the case.

    1 Timothy 3:8 and Titus 2:3, when referring to “much wine,”
    does not in any way make allowances for so-called “temperate”
    drinking. Even if one assumes that the wine spoken of is alco-
    holic, Barnes quotes Bloomfield on 1 Timothy 3:8, in explaining
    this point:

    The word much is added here to what is said of the
    qualification of a bishop. It is not affirmed that it would
    be proper for the deacon, any more than the bishop, to
    indulge in the use of wine in small quantities, but it is
    affirmed that a man who is much given to the use of
    wine, ought not, on any consideration, to be a deacon. It
    may be remarked here, that this qualification was
    everywhere regarded as necessary for a minister of reli-
    gion. Even the heathen priests, on entering a temple,
    did not drink wine.
    Adam Clarke in his exposition makes it clear that the text in no
    way makes room for drinking whatsoever, even if one assumes that
    the wine spoken of was of the alcoholic nature. He states:

    Neither a drunkard, tippler, nor what is called a jovial
    companion. All this would be inconsistent with gravity.
    Now returning to the alternative idea that the wine referred to
    In 1 Timothy 3:8 and Titus 2:3 was not necessarily alcoholic, we will now focus our attention further on Titus 2:3 in explaining this point:

    The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as
    becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much
    wine, teachers of good things; (Titus 2:3)
    Exerpt from "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton Campbell

    Will continue after I get some sleep.ZZZZZzzzzzz
     
  19. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,454
    Likes Received:
    93
    Do you admit you are a liar?
     
  20. dan e.

    dan e.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    0
    HBSMN, when are you going to stop? Get over this subject. Does it bother you that much that people don't agree with you on everything?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...