An Answer To Alcoholic Beverages

So HBSMN, why aren't you evangelizing any of us since we're not saved?

Show a little bit of Christ's love to the lost.

 

I was paraphrasing.

 

:laugh:

.....................

 

Ya' know, I wasn't all that interested in this thread until now, but I would like to hear HBSMN's answer too.

 

I've made this point several times. I don't know why it doesn't sink in. Grapes are covered in natural yeast and mold, which is why it ferments. Some of the natural mold even contributes to its flavor as wine, so it's called "noble rot". Raw grape juice contains all the live yeast and mold, which is leaven. It's only when the alcohol from fermentation kills off the leaven that the wine becomes "pure". At that point you can add water without corrupting the wine.

You can boil down grape juice until it becomes a syrup, then add water to the syrup, but even that will ferment if you leave it out.

 

There is no scripture that specifially states that Jesus drank wine--Jesus does say:

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:29)

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Mark 14:25)

The fruit of the vine is not fermented wine. In Luke 7:34, it does not state that Jesus was drinking wine--all it says is that "the Son of Man is come eating and drinking..." The Pharisees were accusing Him of being a glutton and a winebibber. However, He refuted their accusations in the next verse when He said "wisdom is justified of all her children".

The definition of fermentation from the Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

FERMENTA'TION, n. L. fermentatio. The sensible internal motion of the constituent particles of animal and vegetable substances, occasioned by a certain degree of heat and moisture, and accompanied by an extrication of gas and heat. Fermentation is followed by a change of properties in the substances fermented, arising from new combinations of their principles. It may be defined, in its most general sense, any spontaneous change which takes place in animal or vegetable substances, after life has ceased. It is of three kinds, vinous, acetous, and putrefactive. The term is also applied to other processes, as the panary fermentation, or the raising of bread; but it is limited, by some authors, to the vinous and acetous fermentations, which terminate in the production of alcohol or vinegar. Fermentation differs from effervescence. The former is confined to animal and vegetable substances; the latter is applicable to mineral substances. The former is spontaneous; the latter produced by the mixture of bodies.

According to that definition, fermentation is decomposition and decay. Now tell me, would Jesus turn water into a decomposed and dead substance as fermented wine? I think not. Fermented wine is "dead fruit".

The bait may be enticing, but this fish isn't biting.

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. (Psalms 139:23-24)

 

Very convenient of you to quote from the 1828 dictionary, when they didn't understand the specifics behind decomposition. In the case of wine, the living yeast (leaven, symbol of corruption) in the grape juice eats the sugar (it has to be alive to eat), which produces alcohol, which kills the yeast and purifies the wine. That is the process of decomposition, which is called fermentation.

Next time quote from a dictionary written when people understood something about microbiology. I can quote from sources that say the world is flat, too, but that won't help me make a valid point.

 

ho hum.....still waiting.

 

HBSMN,

did you answer this one? if so I missed it...

 

It is portraying a different Jesus than the one my Bible declares to be sinless.

I guess you will have to wait and find out for yourself.

I would not want to take the chance myself that I might be following a wrong christ.

It is up to each of us to Study the Scripture and to conform ourselves to the image of God's dear Son. If we are conformed to the image of another, we will not be accepted.


If one believes in a Sinless Jesus, then they would believe in the one that my Bible says did not drink wine.

And it is wrong to say those who follows the Biblical command to abstain from wine "weaker brethren". It is not that we are weak, but that we are made strong through Christ and His Word.

Abstinence is a command, not a weakness.

 

Where does your Bible say that Jesus did not drink wine?

I need to leave this thread. I believe in total, absolute, unequivocal abstainance. I believe that the Bible gives enough evidence that even one drink is unwise, but some of the arguments posted here just don't make any biblical sense to me.

And this is probably what - the 100th or so thread on this topic?

 

Even if Jesus didn't drink wine (the alcoholic kind), He sure hung around a lot of people who did. I don't recall Him rebuking people for this. He told the adulteress to go and sin no more, but I don't remember reading where He told someone who was drinking wine to go and sin no more.
Have I missed this?

 

I'm not Amy, (cause I have a beard :laugh: :laugh but I do agree with this. However deciding what that was is entirely speculation, as Scripture does not declare what it was, only that it happened. (Jo. 20:30, 21:25)

Ed

 

Nobody has ever denied that Jesus was sinless.

I'm still waiting for the answer, yet nobody seems to be bold enough to declare that they think anyone who thinks Jesus made or possibly drank alcoholic wine is not saved. If I thought that, I wouldn't be bold enough to make such outlandish, unbiblical accusations myself.

Still waiting.

 

Amy,

There is nowhere in the New Testament that says Jesus hung around those who drank alcoholic wine. As a matter of fact, since the Scriptures testify of Jesus (John 5:39), one can only come to the conclusion that Jesus never hung around those who drank alcohol.

How do I know?

Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: (Proverbs 23:20)

Jesus would have been violating that His own Word!

He may have in His lifetime ran across drunks, but He certainly did not make it a practice to hang out with them.

The fact that He could not have hung around with those who were drinking alcoholic wine further proves that the wine at the wedding feast of Cana was non-fermented.