An empty God?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by UZThD, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phil 2:6-8.
     
  2. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yer kidding right?

    :rolleyes:

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  3. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    UZThD---were are you going with your topic??? What is your implication??

    Bro. David
     
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    Before I comment I'd like to know where you're going with this. Please do us all a blessing and give us at least a short paragraph of where you want this to head.
     
  5. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    Well, if this is an empty God that blesses me every day, I'm not sure I could stand the blessings from a full one :)
     
  6. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    40
    Well spoken, exscentric , very well spoken!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I don't know what your point is but it defies Scripture and logic. If you are speaking of Jesus Christ the Apostle Paul tells us in Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
     
  8. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry for my vagueness. The text says "He emptied Himself." Of what?
     
  9. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    Of whatever He emptied himself of I guess.

    Sorry, couldn't not do that.

    Well, maybe I could have :)
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I believe He simply laid aside for a time the Glory of the Godhead. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ prays: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
     
  11. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  12. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe He simply laid aside for a time the Glory of the Godhead. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ prays: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. </font>[/QUOTE]===


    What IS that glory?

    IF it were only that, how could He be genuinely wearied at Jacob's well or truly worried in Gethsemene or actually killed at Golgotha or ignorant of the time of His return?

    If in the text 'ekenosen' simply refers to a laying aside of something, then why is that aorist seemingly qualified by the modal participal 'labon' ? Is the emptying not defined by a 'taking' rather than a 'giving up' ?
     
  13. Paul33

    Paul33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    He emptied hismself, not by giving up his divine attributes, but by taking on the form of a servant, that addition of a human nature, will, center of consciousness, body.
     
  14. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    uzthd posted "Is that how you exegete: "whatever" ?"

    I posted "Of whatever He emptied himself of I guess.

    Sorry, couldn't not do that.

    Well, maybe I could have :)"

    :) is a sidewise happppppyyyyy face which indicates a joooookkkkeeee!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    ===

    I agree. IMO, God did not empty Himself of anthing as:

    1) lexically - that verb kenosis is elsewhere used by Paul metaphorically

    2) contextually- here it is defined by a taking of something not a giving up of something and the Son still exists in the divine morphe

    3) theologically- God is immutable

    4) parallel passages as in Col 1 attribute to the Son even after the incarnation the omnipotence to hold the universe together
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Theologically, the doctrine of the kenosis summarizes that Jesus gave up the "voluntary independent use of divine attributes" during His incarnation.

    He was, of course, still 100% fully God. But in His humanity, He became for a little while lower than angels. He could/did use His divine attributes, but only through the power/working of God the Spirit, being in that way 100% man.
     
  17. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Huh? I gave the historic theological definition of kenosis. Assumed you knew that.

    Christ has a "unique" mind - 100% God and 100% man. Just as He had a "unique" body and every facet of His incarnation.

    It is not an either/or. It is unique.
     
  19. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  20. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
     

Share This Page

Loading...