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An empty God?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by UZThD, Apr 10, 2005.

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  1. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Phil 2:6-8.
     
    #1 UZThD, Apr 10, 2005
  2. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Yer kidding right?

    :rolleyes:

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
    #2 av1611jim, Apr 11, 2005
  3. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    UZThD---were are you going with your topic??? What is your implication??

    Bro. David
     
    #3 blackbird, Apr 11, 2005
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Before I comment I'd like to know where you're going with this. Please do us all a blessing and give us at least a short paragraph of where you want this to head.
     
    #4 preachinjesus, Apr 12, 2005
  5. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Well, if this is an empty God that blesses me every day, I'm not sure I could stand the blessings from a full one :)
     
    #5 exscentric, Apr 12, 2005
  6. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Well spoken, exscentric , very well spoken!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #6 just-want-peace, Apr 12, 2005
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what your point is but it defies Scripture and logic. If you are speaking of Jesus Christ the Apostle Paul tells us in Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
     
    #7 OldRegular, Apr 12, 2005
  8. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Sorry for my vagueness. The text says "He emptied Himself." Of what?
     
    #8 UZThD, Apr 14, 2005
  9. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Of whatever He emptied himself of I guess.

    Sorry, couldn't not do that.

    Well, maybe I could have :)
     
    #9 exscentric, Apr 14, 2005
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I believe He simply laid aside for a time the Glory of the Godhead. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ prays: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
     
    #10 OldRegular, Apr 14, 2005
  11. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    #11 UZThD, Apr 15, 2005
  12. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    I believe He simply laid aside for a time the Glory of the Godhead. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ prays: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. </font>[/QUOTE]===


    What IS that glory?

    IF it were only that, how could He be genuinely wearied at Jacob's well or truly worried in Gethsemene or actually killed at Golgotha or ignorant of the time of His return?

    If in the text 'ekenosen' simply refers to a laying aside of something, then why is that aorist seemingly qualified by the modal participal 'labon' ? Is the emptying not defined by a 'taking' rather than a 'giving up' ?
     
    #12 UZThD, Apr 15, 2005
  13. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    He emptied hismself, not by giving up his divine attributes, but by taking on the form of a servant, that addition of a human nature, will, center of consciousness, body.
     
    #13 Paul33, Apr 15, 2005
  14. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    uzthd posted "Is that how you exegete: "whatever" ?"

    I posted "Of whatever He emptied himself of I guess.

    Sorry, couldn't not do that.

    Well, maybe I could have :)"

    :) is a sidewise happppppyyyyy face which indicates a joooookkkkeeee!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #14 exscentric, Apr 15, 2005
  15. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ===

    I agree. IMO, God did not empty Himself of anthing as:

    1) lexically - that verb kenosis is elsewhere used by Paul metaphorically

    2) contextually- here it is defined by a taking of something not a giving up of something and the Son still exists in the divine morphe

    3) theologically- God is immutable

    4) parallel passages as in Col 1 attribute to the Son even after the incarnation the omnipotence to hold the universe together
     
    #15 UZThD, Apr 15, 2005
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Theologically, the doctrine of the kenosis summarizes that Jesus gave up the "voluntary independent use of divine attributes" during His incarnation.

    He was, of course, still 100% fully God. But in His humanity, He became for a little while lower than angels. He could/did use His divine attributes, but only through the power/working of God the Spirit, being in that way 100% man.
     
    #16 Dr. Bob, Apr 15, 2005
  17. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    #17 UZThD, Apr 15, 2005
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Huh? I gave the historic theological definition of kenosis. Assumed you knew that.

    Christ has a "unique" mind - 100% God and 100% man. Just as He had a "unique" body and every facet of His incarnation.

    It is not an either/or. It is unique.
     
    #18 Dr. Bob, Apr 15, 2005
  19. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    #19 UZThD, Apr 15, 2005
  20. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    #20 UZThD, Apr 15, 2005
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