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Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by UZThD, Apr 10, 2005.
Yer kidding right?
In HIS service;
UZThD---were are you going with your topic??? What is your implication??
Before I comment I'd like to know where you're going with this. Please do us all a blessing and give us at least a short paragraph of where you want this to head.
Well, if this is an empty God that blesses me every day, I'm not sure I could stand the blessings from a full one
Well spoken, exscentric , very well spoken!!!
I don't know what your point is but it defies Scripture and logic. If you are speaking of Jesus Christ the Apostle Paul tells us in Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Sorry for my vagueness. The text says "He emptied Himself." Of what?
Of whatever He emptied himself of I guess.
Sorry, couldn't not do that.
Well, maybe I could have
I believe He simply laid aside for a time the Glory of the Godhead. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ prays: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
I believe He simply laid aside for a time the Glory of the Godhead. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ prays: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. </font>[/QUOTE]===
What IS that glory?
IF it were only that, how could He be genuinely wearied at Jacob's well or truly worried in Gethsemene or actually killed at Golgotha or ignorant of the time of His return?
If in the text 'ekenosen' simply refers to a laying aside of something, then why is that aorist seemingly qualified by the modal participal 'labon' ? Is the emptying not defined by a 'taking' rather than a 'giving up' ?
He emptied hismself, not by giving up his divine attributes, but by taking on the form of a servant, that addition of a human nature, will, center of consciousness, body.
uzthd posted "Is that how you exegete: "whatever" ?"
I posted "Of whatever He emptied himself of I guess.
Sorry, couldn't not do that.
Well, maybe I could have "
is a sidewise happppppyyyyy face which indicates a joooookkkkeeee!!!!!!!!!!
I agree. IMO, God did not empty Himself of anthing as:
1) lexically - that verb kenosis is elsewhere used by Paul metaphorically
2) contextually- here it is defined by a taking of something not a giving up of something and the Son still exists in the divine morphe
3) theologically- God is immutable
4) parallel passages as in Col 1 attribute to the Son even after the incarnation the omnipotence to hold the universe together
Theologically, the doctrine of the kenosis summarizes that Jesus gave up the "voluntary independent use of divine attributes" during His incarnation.
He was, of course, still 100% fully God. But in His humanity, He became for a little while lower than angels. He could/did use His divine attributes, but only through the power/working of God the Spirit, being in that way 100% man.
Huh? I gave the historic theological definition of kenosis. Assumed you knew that.
Christ has a "unique" mind - 100% God and 100% man. Just as He had a "unique" body and every facet of His incarnation.
It is not an either/or. It is unique.