An encounter with an Islamic 'extremist'

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Agent47, May 16, 2016.

  1. Agent47

    Agent47
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    Hi all,
    I understand the word 'extremist' is imprecise but it generally connotes those ready to unleash violence and terror in the name of an ideological cause especially a religious one.

    Last week I had a discussion with a Muslim (he is really not into it that much, never seen him fast over Ramadan...)colleague, we discuss all stuff, conspiracy theories, soccer, parenting, and of course our faiths. The discussion veered into ISIS. I remarked that while there are 10001 reasons or excuses for taking away human life (self defense,war,insanity,crime..) the most cowardly reason is deity; killing another simply because deity commands or says so. I went on to suggest that those who do so are too scared to deal with consequences of their actions and so they shift the responsibility to a deity.

    Over an old ISIS beheading clip I pondered if really Allah wanted that man's head servered. I suggested the Allah delegated the bloody job to mortals because he can't do it himself. This,mi said to be the only alternative explanation to men shifting blame for their heinous actions.

    My friend was lost in thoughts for a while as I went on. I posed a question. If Allah commanded him to kill me, would he do it? He said he would never. Then I asked how sure the jihadists were that Allah commanded them to behead. The answer was, they are lost in literalism of the Quran.

    Later on my friend asked me something. What about the bible? Has God ever commanded men to kill other men? I really answered in the affirmative. Next question was whether I'd kill a man (him specifically) if he commanded me to. My answer was 'dispensational' the 'era' of God commanding men to kill others is over so there is no possibility of him commanding me now. My friend was unfazed, he wonders what moral high ground a Christian had over a Jihadist seeing both their deities have commanded 'genocide', not just war but indiscriminate killings outside war.

    And that question has nagged me for the last one week. YHWH commanded men to kill, Allah commands men to kill. What's the difference between them?

    Please members help me with this
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Psalm 115King James Version (KJV)
    115 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

    2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

    3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

    4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

    5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

    6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

    7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

    8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
     
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    By no means am I a dispensationalist, but your answer along 'dispensational' lines is basically correct, IMO. Those things recorded back then were written for us and the conquest of Canaan contains some marvelous types for our edification.

    The bottom line is your friend's god is false, your God is the one true God, and unless your God gives him the heart to see it, well, be careful if you wish to remain friends.
     
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  4. Agent47

    Agent47
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    Thank you @Iconoclast,
    But exactly how does this portion of scriptures answer the question I posed?

    My reading is that YHWH is different from idols, and I have no problem with that. But would you say YHWH and 'idols' (Allah) share some similarity in so far as commanding men to waste others?
     
    #4 Agent47, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  5. Agent47

    Agent47
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    Thank you @kyredneck,
    I must admit that I'm no Dispensationalist myself. The biggest obstacle to this has been Ezekiel's Temple. I can't place animal sacrifices anywhere after Calvary and especially after Hebrews. Sorry for digression.

    Please note I don't believe Allah is YHWH at all or an Arabic expression of Him, so when I ponder on the difference between YHWH and Allah, it is not in their entire being but rather specifically on the point of commanding men to waste other men. It's like, 'your deity commands men to waste other men, my deity commands men to waste other men....can you criticize us when we waste other men as commanded by our deity? Are you not criticizing your faith as well?'
     

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