An Immigration Story

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gina B, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Typically, I would have a tough time feeling bad for the majority of illegal immigrants and feel the parents shoulder the burden for the situations their children are going through should the parents get deported.
    However, this is a family from Nicaragua. This is one of not a "let's sneak over the border, make a few bucks at everyone else's expense and take advantage of the US government because they're stupid" type story. These are the types of people we WANT here and the types of immigrants we should have sympathy for. Those escaping bad situations, a rough government, looking for a better situation for their children, and there is plenty of evidence that they were working hard in school. Not only that, there is absolutely no criminal history.
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/26/us/im...ted-children-left-behind/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
    Also, I recently met and spoke with someone on a visa from Nicaragua who is working his way towards becoming a citizen. He spoke of the situation there and why he wants to become a citizen of the United States. I thought of his words and his studies in school, his ambitions, his reasoning as I read through this story.

    I thought of the many illegals in my area who are not like the person I met or the family in this story. The ones who take advantage, who are involved in drugs, prostitution, gangs, and seem to just be prolific breeders who use their kids as anchor babies and to shake more money out of the welfare system, yet magically, they do not get deported! This really shocks me when everyone seems to look the other way, when people talk about having no resources, yet a family like the one in this story gets so much attention, must attend so many meetings it likely interfered with his ability to support his family and take care of his children and he continually tried, up until they took him away? Do you know how many children of deported immigrants are likely being used and abused by the lowest of people, since nobody is looking for them? What if nobody took these children in? What if someone did, then decided to be evil and sell them? Do you see how evil people can profit and take advantage here?

    What do you think of this particular story and how it played out? Should they have been given amnesty or legal status in this situation? Are these the type of people we want to welcome and give a fresh start to? If not, who? (I'll assume those that answer have at least some knowledge of the social and political landscape of Nicaragua)
     
  2. JohnDeereFan

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    What part of "illegal" did you not understand?

    No. Illegal.

    No. Illegal.

    Nobody. Time to hang out the "No Vacancy" sign.
    First of all, if you were interested in morality, then you would not want to support people breaking the law.

    Second, I believe I can have mercy, sympathy, and empathy without enabling border criminals.

    Yes, that's precisely why we operate three rescue missions and send missionaries to five different countries.

    If they're Christians, then they have an even greater obligation to follow the law.

    My brother was a drug dealer, con man, and thief. Friendliest guy you ever met.
     
    #2 JohnDeereFan, Oct 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2013
  3. Crabtownboy

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    What part of morality, mercy, sympathy, empathy do you not understand?

    In my area the immigrant churches are booming and as far as I can tell the by what I see in our area men and women are working hard, paying taxes and being good citizens. I have yet to talk to an immigrant who has not been friendly. I cannot say that for all the good legally native born folk I've met and talked to around town.
     
  4. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I've known several illegal immigrants. Before my gambling problems, I was a home builder. A lot of illegals work in that industry. And as Gina said, they are some of the nicest people in the world. There is no doubt that among drywallers, stucco installers, carpenters and roofers, you can't find a harder-working bunch than the Hispanics who populate those trades in the Kansas City area, and across the nation, for that matter. You wouldn't trade some of these crews for gold, they are that good.

    That doesn't give them the right to violate immigration laws, jump the line ahead of legal immigrants who go through the visa application process, and wait years to get into the U.S. They are breaking the law. That was their choice.

    This family in the story Gina linked is typical. Wonderful people. Good people. Hard workers. But they did this to themselves, and worst of all, they did this to their kids. The parents knew the consequences, and now they're crying "foul" because they got caught.

    Sorry. They have no one to blame but themselves. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
     
  5. Gina B

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    Illegal is not a cuss word. While people apply for asylum, they are still illegal and came here without permission.

    Some people truly come here to seek refuge.

    Sometimes it isn't a matter of life or death in the moment, but still very questionable circumstances in which they live and quite nasty. What is the point of displaying the New Colossus, and so very prominently, if we aren't willing to do it? Pretty words in the wind with no intention of following them - more lies from American politicians, and perhaps citizens now, who don't want to follow through for people who actually want to work and do better for themselves?
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Want to explain exactly what that means, Gina? It's nice rhetoric, but what does it have to do with legal vs. illegal status? Illegal is illegal, whether one beats up his wife, or enters the country without a visa.
     
  7. JohnDeereFan

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    I'm a farmer living in a rural farming community. We have more border criminals here than you can swing a piñata stick at. At a recent 9/12 group meeting, a state trooper gave a presentation about the dangers we now face in our state from Mexican gangs who come here illegally.

    I agree. Like I said, my brother was a drug dealer, con man, and a thief. Great guy. Friendly, polite, hard worker. Funny, but the various judges he stood before still insisted on holding him to the law.

    If this was one of those boards where you could give rep points, I'd give you reps for that.

    But it is an apt description of an act that violates the law.

    Actually, if they've applied for asylum, they're not illegal. They're here on a provisional basis.

    What, specifically?

    You mean the New Colossus that sits next to Ellis Island where people came to enter the country legally?

    To use your own logic, what is the point of having laws if we're not going to hold people to them?

    I have no problem with people who want to work and do better for themselves. My problem is with people who have no respect for our laws or our culture, people who come to take and not give back.

    If they're here illegally, then they are, by definition, committing a crime. What's more, if they're here illegally, then they are taking a handout at least in the sense that they're using resources paid for by others, never mind that they're still eligible for God-knows-what reason for welfare.

    I get it: life in Nicaragua sucks. I'm not unsympathetic, but I'm also sympathetic to my neighbors and my fellow Americans and I believe my first loyalty lies with them.

    If they're really the kind of people you insist we want here, then let them prove it. Let them go back to Nicaragua and begin the process to come here legally.
     
    #7 JohnDeereFan, Oct 26, 2013
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  8. Gina B

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    John, did you read the news story attached? I'm talking about this family in particular, and their life in Nicaragua as opposed to their life in the USA and their children's progress in American schools and culture, and the lack of criminal activity, as opposed to just hopping over here, committing crimes, and expecting a handout.
     
  9. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    What you fail to understand, Gina, is that being here illegally makes them criminals. Whether they're working hard at legitimate jobs or running drugs, their lack of legal status in the U.S. makes them criminals, and they have to face the consequences for choosing to be illegal. The worst thing is, as I said, they did this to their kids, and we're not responsible for their plight, nor are the laws that were enforced against them.
     
  10. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    And what you said about "giving reps" -- this would get you a bunch from me right about now. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Gina B

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    I don't see everything as black and white. In my opinion, there is almost always going to be an exception to a rule. A word is just a word. There will always be reasons behind the actions of a human being, which can drastically alter their motivation and purpose for behaviors.

    I believe there is wisdom in examining individual situations rather than grouping everyone the same based on a rigid system defined by laws and words void of human compassion.
     
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    To rules, yes. Not to laws. We cannot make exceptions to the law, or we have nothing but anarchy.

    And nonetheless, if those actions violate the law, that person is subject to the punishments of the law, if proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    And again, that's anarchy. There were a lot of people who thought Matthew Cordle, the young man who confessed on Facebook that he was guilty of vehicular homicide in Columbus, Ohio, should be given leniency for his honesty. If that's the criteria for leniency, then anyone who confesses to a crime should be given leniency. That's not how the law works, though. It is particularly troublesome that someone would just let an illegal immigrant family stay because they're nicer than most. Every illegal immigrant family could tell very much the same story as these folks. That's beside the point.
     
    #12 thisnumbersdisconnected, Oct 26, 2013
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  13. exscentric

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    Have been wondering of late if all these wonderful, talented and "honest working folks" had stayed home and changed their country if Mexico and south wouldn't be a much nicer set of countries.
     
  14. Gina B

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    If they stayed in their land of original citizenship, that would make many of them criminals since in many of those places, the law says they are not allowed to try to make those changes and often not even allowed to say the law is wrong or speak out against the powers that be without some pretty nasty repercussions.

    What people seem to fail at is remembering that laws are made to protect people, not for their harm. Look to the scripture, where people accused Jesus for breaking Sabbath laws and he pointed out that the laws were made for people, not the other way around. That's the way laws should work. If someone was hungry on the Sabbath, then the need of that human overtook the "law" about preparing food. Why should it be different with other laws? If there is a need for protection, why doesn't common sense kick in when a man moves his family to our country to protect them? Why do we seek to condemn them and protect ourselves in that situation instead of help?
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    If nobody was ever allowed citizenship here you would have a point. Our nation has refugees everywhere. From all sorts of places.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Our country was founded on making changes and standing against the laws of the days created by tyrants. But the truth is the illegals coming from Mexico are doing so because they believe we stole their land and they want to get it back.

    If they want something better they need to make it better for themselves rather than sponging off of someone else. Rather than arrogantly coming here and demanding that they have a right to become citizens. Quite the hutzpa.
     
  17. Gina B

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    (Nicaragua isn't Mexico)

    But good point. If we just stand by and let them arrogantly come here and demand they have a right to be citizens, they might take over our land, banish us to really cruddy reservations, and take our children as their own. That would be awful.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    as little as I know about the law, it is not hard to understand that the law cannot set precedents it will have to run away from in the future.
    if the law gave favorable rulings to somebody because he is nice, industrious, affable, easy to get along with, and feels America is his home more than his country of origin, then everyone who comes along with the same qualifications should be treated favorably.
    The best way is to change the law, a promise which Barack Obama broke along with many other promises he broke and which he will break, and I'm sure these nice people in the story campaigned, if not voted, for the great Liar in the White House.
     
  19. Gina B

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    I'm not going with "nice person," though he obviously didn't come here with bad intentions.
    He and his wife obviously decided their children are better off living in the United States than being deported with them. When you read about the dangers of living there, the infrastructure, (or lack of it) this is understandable and heartbreaking.
     
  20. exscentric

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    Seems you answered your own objection they should stay and help change the laws they flee.
     

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