An Inconvenient Truth

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by mikenym31, Jun 2, 2006.

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  1. mikenym31

    mikenym31
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    Does anyone plan on seeing this film about Al Gore and his quest to educate the masses on global warming? And what are your thoughts about global warming. I personallly think it's much ado about nothing. I mean even the experts agree that it may be thousands of years before it comes to fruition, if it ever does.

    Mike
    http://web.mac.com/mpalmer701
     
  2. Daisy

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    Which experts agree with that? Seriously, any not funded by or connected to Big Energy?
     
  3. mikenym31

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    Is global warming occurring?

    According to Accu-Weather, the world’s leading commercial forecaster, "Global air temperatures as measured by land-based weather stations show an increase of about 0.45 degrees Celsius over the past century. This may be no more than normal climatic variation...[and] several biases in the data may be responsible for some of this increase."
    Satellite data indicate a slight cooling in the climate in the last 18 years. These satellites use advanced technology and are not subject to the "heat island" effect around major cities that alters ground-based thermometers.
    Projections of future climate changes are uncertain. Although some computer models predict warming in the next century, these models are very limited. The effects of cloud formations, precipitation, the role of the oceans, or the sun, are still not well known and often inadequately represented in the climate models --- although all play a major role in determining our climate. Scientists who work on these models are quick to point out that they are far from perfect representations of reality, and are probably not advanced enough for direct use in policy implementation. Interestingly, as the computer climate models have become more sophisticated in recent years, the predicted increase in temperature has been lowered.

    Copied from
    http://www.globalwarming.org
     
  4. Daisy

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  5. carpro

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    Gore's ambition is to be the next Michael Moore.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    Reports of global warming use too little of a data sample to be trustworthy. You cannot just the trend of a millions of year old planet (if they are correct) by using 100 years of data. That would be a worse sample than juding your life by the last 10 seconds you have lived. This doesn't need non energy funded sites. It simply needs common sense. Thirty years ago people were talking about global cooling and another ice age, were they not?
     
  7. mikenym31

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    Daisy, are there any credible non-left wing sources? Or is everything on the capitalist right so biased that they cannot tell the truth? On second thought, I should probably listen to what NPR has to say about global warming, since they are unbiased and have no agenda.
     
    #7 mikenym31, Jun 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2006
  8. carpro

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    :rolleyes:
     
  9. Daisy

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    That would depend on what you consider left wing to be. Is the National Science Foundation left-wing or not? Do you consider all university studies - except from places like Bob Jones - to be left-wing?

    My stipulation was fairly simple and obvious - NOT funded by oil & gas companies (unbiased) and published in peer-reviewed science journals (credible scientists). How hard can that be to find? If you can find none that support your view, maybe your view is insupportable.
     
  10. Not_hard_to_find

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    While we're on the subject..

    From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11658245/from/RL.1/ locate the graphic for Hot Spots slide show. Among the shots is one of Jupiter -- which states: "A newly formed reddish storm appears to the left of Jupiter's Great Red Spot in this image from the Hubble Space Telescope…Astronomers say the new storm pattern, nicknamed Red Spot Jr., may hint at major climate change in Jupiter's atmosphere."

    Could it possibly be that "major climate change" on a planet can be triggered by something other than fossil fuel and errors on the part of mankind?
     
  11. Hope of Glory

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    It seems obvious to me that we can't trust the experts, so we must turn to Hollyweird to get a clear view of the truth. </sarcasm>

    Seriously, though, is global warming for real? Probably, it's a cyclical thing that has been going back and forth for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years.

    Did man cause it? I think that's quite pompous.
     
  12. Shiloh

    Shiloh
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    Global warming? The only people that I know that believe this junk are Algore and Helen. It;s 53 in Maine today. :tongue3:
     
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    The question of if global warming is occurring is interesting but impossible to prove either way.

    • 100 years or less of reliable information is not enough to statistically track anything.
    • The data we have is corrupted by the changing urbanization of the planet.
    • We do have evidence to support the idea that over the history of our planet there have been ice ages and times when the poles were tropical so we know that global warming and cooling is a natural event.

    The huge jump of guestimation is when they say that if global warming is occurring then mankind has anything to do with it or that mankind could do anything to stop it. When they take this leap they have turned what could be valid science to political grandstanding.

    Another great example of this junk science is the thin spot in the ozone over the south pole. (of course there has never been an actual hole but the area that is thinned by 50% is called a hole by NOAA)
     
  14. Daisy

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    Between 1945 & the mid-70s there had been a drop of the mean temperature preceeded by several decades of warming. Scientists were beginning to understand the cycles of the change to the tilt of the earth. One of the interesting things about scientific knowledge is that it is cummulative - it doesn't just reach a set point and stop. We've had thirty years more study, more data and increased understanding.

    As far as I know, the data do include ice core and sediment core samples that date back quite a ways further than the last hundred years.

    And in fact, we are currently in an ice age, but an interglacial period. These ages and periods span vast timeperiods. Global warming, on the other hand, is an immediate concern.
     
  15. Daisy

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    Yes, it is cyclical overall.

    Perhaps the question should be, "Is man accelarating it?" and "Is there anything we can do to slow it down?"

    I take it you don't garden much or you would know that an individual man can affect the micro-climate of his yard with trees, rocks, etc.

    Are the increased release of carbons into the atmosphere causing an acceleration of global warming. While there is some disagreement, the consensus among scientists is that it is.
     
  16. ASLANSPAL

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    Gods blessings on you Al Gore you really are the real "compassionate conservative" it took a while for the right wing noise machince to get ramped up against you along with big oil ...but stay the course ..God loves the underdog.


    The debate is over, Global warming is here....so you can either whine and pretend or you can be a problem solver.
    Trailer to movie

    I will definitely go see it and tell by word of mouth for others as well.

    WE have put 100's of Krakatoa's worth of CO 2 into our atmosphere with the burning of fuels...we are part of the reason for what is happening Al Gore is being extremely moral in warning us and giving solutions ...instead of being cynical and negative like those on this board who still believe the earth is flat.
     
  17. mikenym31

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    Since the overwhelming majority of university campuses are filled with liberals, then yes, I would consider university studies left wing. And since NSF is a gov't agency then I'm apt to believe that it too is left wing.

    I did give you a source for my contention but you didn't like the source, so, because you don't agree with it, you dismiss it and say that it is biased. You don't think your scientists and "peers" are biased? They're competing for money just like the oil companies are, the only difference is, they are competing for government (tax) money, while oil companies are competing for consumer dollars.

    I have a feeling that no matter how many examples I trot out, you will have some kind of problem with them-unless they agree with you. In spite of that, here are a few links, some hacks, some scientists, some organizations. There's also the Oregon Petition which I'm sure you know about (and probably have some problem with).

    http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1523.htm
    http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/jan/antarctica/020118.antarctica.html

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/climate/
    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=418
    http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Environment/debunking.htm
    http://www.abd.org.uk/green_myths.htm
    http://www.predictweather.com/global_warming/index.asp
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/14/161152.shtml
    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200412\NAT20041207a.html

    I'm sure all these people are in the pockets of the sinister and evil big oil and energy companies, so forgive me in advance for my subscription to their wiles.
     
  18. Daisy

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    So any source not obviously right-wing is left-wing by default in your view? No neutral ground?

    No, I dismissed it not because I disagreed with it but because I asked you for a credible source NOT funded by Big Energy which has a clear agenda.

    I don't have scientists.

    Scientists do have biases which is why studies and their data are made available for reworking and reanalysis and why publishing in peer-reviewed scientific journals is important - it subjects the conclusions to critical scrutiny. Scientists do compete for recognition and for dollars from governments, universities and foundations - which is one more reason to poke holes in each others work.

    It is very uncharitable of you to attribute close-minded bias to me but I suppose it is human nature to assume other people have our own faults.

    I'm still unfamiliar with the Oregan Petition, but I'll look at all your links. It will take some time to go through them all...

    That kind of snarkiness is uncalled for, mike, and unappreciated. I do thank you, however, for going to the trouble of finding and posting links which support your view.
     
    #18 Daisy, Jun 4, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2006
  19. The Galatian

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    There's a very nice correlation between CO2 in the atmosphere and global temperatures in the last 200 years.-

    The tree huggers were predicting global warming, but so were a lot of responsible scientists. The predictions turned out to be right. Mountain glaciers and Anarctic ice are melting. Polar bears are raiding settlements for garbage in the arctic, because there's not enough pack ice to let them hunt. And now, insurance rates are going up on the Gulf coast, because of increasing numbers of destructive storms.

    Welcome to the real world.
     
  20. mikenym31

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    My contention is that everyone is biased in some shape form or fashion. Even "neutral" sources have a bias. Look at all the news outlets- ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX all supposedly are neutral but all lean one way or the other. I just choose to trust, more often than not, the ones who lean (or have fallen in) to the right.

    If being close minded is knowing what I believe and why, and standing up for those things, then yes I am close minded.

    I apologize if my snarky comment offended, it was meant for humorous purposes only.
     
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