ANALYSIS: Are evangelicals fractured & losing influence in the public square?

That makes me sad too.

Agreed. We can't keep expecting exponential growth in trying economic times. Of course to realize this takes leadership, which is lacking in many places.:thumbsup:

 

From the link you provided, you will find 128 pages of financial statements in the annual report, starting with "Part 4: Financial Statements...."

http://www.sbcec.org/bor/2008/default.asp

I believe you will find the information you are seeking, concerning employee pay and compensation, there.

I like truncating. It helps keep cyber space free of unnecessary duplication.

I do my best to give the thrust of what you are saying, just not repeating all the details.

peace to youraying:

 

I've read it, there is ont detailed information about employee and executive compensation.

 

You read all 128 pages? Did you understand everything that you read?

Perhaps you could give us a summary, giving examples from the annual report and financial statements, that validate your assertions that the agencies are not reporting employee pay and compensation?

peace to youraying:

 

I can read English and balance sheets. What part of specific financial disclosure don't you understand?

Where is the detailed financials for how the "administrative personnel budget" in each division is laid out?

Where are the specific line items for the payment package of a, say, seminary president including annual salary, annual car, driver, cook, maid, library expense, travel, retirement, insurance, etc etc etc?

I don't need an amortization table for the Lifeway Building in downtown Nashville. I'm looking for specific executive pay package details. We'd all be surprised how much the entire office of the president of the executive committee packs away on a monthly basis.

Specificity. Not general budget lines. You don't find it. I challenge you to show me specific, detail financial disclosure for the above package anywhere in this report. That is what I am saying, not a general budget line. But this isn't an issue I desire to get hung up on.



Now returning to the issue where you called me out for misrepresenting the truth about how much of Cooperative Program giving from churches makes it to missionaries. How do you respond to my facts and figures?

One thing I noticed is that it is easy to cast aspersions on someone and have a cavalcade of cronies add their brow beating remarks around here. Yet when the actual truth of the matter is presented many avoid it and their cronies disappear ne'er to be seen again.

 

I agree Rev, I keep hearing that evangelicals are loosing tough with society but I believe society is just moving further from God. I believe the Church should accept sinners but with the mission of helping them become righteous.

The Church must maintain their duty as that light, that beacon on the hill, the voice crying out from the wilderness or there will be no place for those seeking to come out of the world.

PS... I hope you're using the word Libby as a characterization since conservatives are now calling for their party to accept g@y marriage.

 

Like I asked before, show us from the financial statement what you are upset about. There are 128 pages there. You read it all, you said. It should be relatively easy for you to pick a seminary financial statement, and post the details here for all to see.

Show us where a seminary is not reporting employee compensation. You made the assersions. Show us the proof from the annual financial statement.

Well then, by all means don't be part of the crowd. Don't just "cast aspersions", prove what you are saying. Show us from the annual financial statement the proof of what you have claimed.

peace to youraying:

 

You should ask preachingjesus. He has read the entire 128 pages of the financial statements. He understands all the language and balance sheets. He should be able to point us to the exact page for each seminary, and then we can all go there to see what they are hiding.

Or better yet, you should read the entrie 128 pages of the financial statements of the annual, yourself.

peace to youraying:

 

Society is seeking to meet a deeply felt spiritual need. My view is that part of this is the Boomers want to come home to the church they attended as a youth before going out to "change the world." Sadly, many times they find that today's churches are more interested in politics than in spirituality. They attend a couple of times and go back home to play golf on Sunday mornings.

 

I can't show you because its not there. Which is precisely my point.

There is no reporting of executive pay nor employee compensation. Look at Golden Gate's report pages 299-307. Show me where the detailed information, not line item expense, is located.

I honestly don't know why you're hung up on this it is a very minor point. My major issue is how much of a dollar given to the Cooperative Program by John Q. Parishioner at First Baptist Whichahatchee makes it to the missionary in the field. I rebuffed your numbers, because you didn't actual read the rport, and am awaiting your reply on that issue.


I again challenge you to reply to my above post and how such a low dollar amount given in churches to the cooperative program makes it missionaries.

 

Neither Draper nor Hunt have said anything of the sort. That is your eisegetical twisting of the article you linked to. You want to find any isolated error and pin it on the convention as a whole. This is a result of your well documented hatred for the convention. Practical atheism is hyperbole and nothing more.There are more than 12 new church starts in Central Florida alone. This is more than the state convention has money for. But they move forward anyway. Maybe you should set aside your isolated incidents and dig more into what is happening around the convention. You do not have a clue.

 

You gave a link to an article quoting hunt.

I know you desperately want to hang on to your hatred of the convention but you claims are just not panning out. Every state is starting churches. But since you do not actually have any knowledge of what is going on in the convention you do not have that to stand on.

[/quote]I would commend anyone who seeks to plant churches. Thank God for them because it as a very hard job. Much harder than pastoring a church. At times it can get rather depressing. Do you know what percentage of new church starts make it past two years? Your point makes about as much sense as Rick Warren representing your spiritual condition. Through his efforts over 40 churches have been planted.[/QUOTE]

More twisting from you I see. You are, very badly, trying to make the case that the convention is hanging on to theology without any concern for "works". I am saying you are wrong as churches are being planted in every state as we speak. So the practical atheism claim flies out the window on that issue alone. So now you want to side step that and move on to a ratio of successful churches vs. failed churches. The hatred of Dr. Patterson on this board is quite astounding.

 

It has been slowly brewing, I first saw it here then I heard Cheney, Megan McCain and McCain campaign manager echoing the same sentiments. There has been several from the right speaking out in favor of widening the base by being open minded to g@y marriage. I don't think they know what that would do to the party.

 

A bit of an aside, but maybe worth it...I think evangelicals need to start getting their heads (and hearts) around finding solutions for a setting where homosexual marriage is a legal reality. I really believe within 5 to 10 years the US will have recognized homosexual marriage (not just unions.)

This isn't to say we need to like it or even think that saying such a thing will exist is an endorsement (I have advocated against this for a while now.) I just think we need a better answer than "No! Go away!"

 

Who is it that is doing this?