Ancient Greek Culture

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by DavidsAngel, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. DavidsAngel

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    Well I didn't know that this Forum was here till Dr. Bob mentioned it and then I dove in to find it.

    I would like to start a discussion on Ancient Greek Culture.

    Any takers?
     
  2. JesusInFirstPlace

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    sure- I don't know a ton about it, but in taking several classes (Latin and Greek/Roman culture) I have learned some... what exactly is it you wanted to discuss???

    Becca
     
  3. DavidsAngel

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    Actually I wanted to do a comparison on Athens and Sparta. Where it protained to customs and general culture. How it differs from now and how it is similiar [​IMG] ...

    My first point would be the one of infancide that happened in Sparta on a daily basis. And, more importantly if that happened in Athens as well. I'm thiking not but, I cannot recall
     
  4. JesusInFirstPlace

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    I don't remember hearing that it happened in
    Athens as well, but it might have. Both city-states held in high importance the need to be the strongest, bravest, and best in war-even to the point of the infantacide of those babies that were not good enough. To my knowledge, Sparta was more perfect warrior oriented then Athens, but again I don't know for sure.
     
  5. JesusInFirstPlace

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    The most that I know about Greek culture pertains to all of Greece (mostly I know about mythology and he Olympics).
     
  6. DavidsAngel

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    I'd have to agree. I also remember how the Spartans lived apart from thier family till the age of 30. At age 30 those warriors were given the choice of staying in the barracks or living with thier wives. Most decided to stay in the barracks. Reason: Homosexuality was encoraged and practiced in Sparta very heavily. Although it was a social thing in Athens .
     
  7. DavidsAngel

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    o0o the Olympics that is a very intresting topic. Esp the part about them all being nude LOL. And only males were allowed to watch and compete that a woman could get killed for even tying to spy on the games. :-/
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    For one thing, I am thankful for the Greek language, and its evolution from Classical to Koine.

    I translated Thucydides (Pelopennisian Wars - Sparta v Athens) in Classical and it is tough. The language evolved into a smooth, workable body by the time of the NT writers.

    And in the fulness of time, God gave us HIS EXACT WORDS in Koine Greek. It's exactitude far exceeds the imagination of the Engish-only crowd. There is little left to "guess".

    Greek Nouns/Pronouns/Adjectives in Nominative, Genitive, Ablative, Locative, Instrumentive, Dative, Accusative, Vocative cases (instead of 2 in English); Masculine, feminine, neuter gender.

    Greek Verbs in Present, Future, Subjunctive, Aorist, Perfect, Pluperfect tenses; Future, Middle, Passive voices

    Most English readers don't have a clue WHAT I've just written or WHY it is important.

    It's all Greek to them! :eek:
     
  9. DavidsAngel

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    LOL It's very improtant. The complexity of the Greek language is as you said it keeps things exact when traslating from one culture to another. and Beings as for the most part they were a trading culture and alexander the greats conquesting I would see that fitting in thier needed language skills.
     
  10. JesusInFirstPlace

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    That sounds a lot like latin (Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Ablative, and Accusative for the nouns) (verbs in present, future, perfect, imperfect, and pluperfect. Passive and active voice, different moods, masculine, feminine, or neuter, and each has a different ending!!!)
     
  11. rsr

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    Both city-states practiced infanticide, but differently. (Infanticide was common among the ancient Greeks.)

    The Athenians practiced infanticide of female infants, Sparta of sickly male infants.

    "Greek culture" is an awfully broad subject. As far as Sparta being "more perfect warrior oriented," I guess you could make the case in that all of Spartan society was dedicated to perpetuating the oppression of the ruling class, which demanded a stultified society in which innovation was not allowed.

    The Athenians, BTW, were no slouches as fighters, as the victory at Marathon proved. The Spartans arrived late and were astonished to see what the Athenians had done to the Persian army.
     
  12. DavidsAngel

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    WEll yes that is true. And, I believe if i'm not mistaken that is what led to the war between the two city states. The fact that Athens could live on it's on and didn't need sparta. And Sparta seeing that Athens was a Formidable Foe.
     
  13. JesusInFirstPlace

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    Well, as far as Spartan society being "dedicated to perpetuating the oppression of the ruling class, which demanded a stultified society in which innovation was not allowed," I'm sure that's something like what I meant( ;) ) but I'm much too young to take all of the society stuff into that much detail! Thanks for the clarification!
     
  14. DavidsAngel

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    You know sitting here talking about this I cannot remember how either city fell. I'm going to have to go look up my book on Anciet Greece and find out. I Would also be intrested in talking Ancient Egypt at some point too [​IMG] . I'm really loving this if you can't tell :D
     
  15. rsr

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    "And, I believe if i'm not mistaken that is what led to the war between the two city states. The fact that Athens could live on it's on and didn't need sparta."

    It was Sparta, in fact, which feared that it "couldn't live on its own" or, more specifically, its ally Corinth couldn't live on its own because Athens' naval strength allowed it to cut off grain shipments from Sicily.

    Sparta did fear Athens, which by turning the Delian League (formed after the defeat of Persia) into an empire that served only the interest of Athens.

    The Spartans, despite their modern reputation, seem to be no more warlike against other Greeks than were other city-states (and sometimes less so).
     
  16. DavidsAngel

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    You could be right rsr, some of that strikes a cord with me. I do remember these city states had to watch thier step because there were always agressors that were looking to jump in and take over. They had such wonderful trade routes is the reason i'm thinking.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    I think the conflict of Athens and Sparta began with an argument by two Greek tailors.

    Euripides and Eumenides

    [​IMG]
     
  18. DavidsAngel

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    LOL :rolleyes:

    But, you are probably right. They never could agree on anything.
     
  19. Stratiotes

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    I too appreciate the greek language very much. And I love classical greek history as well as the works of the poets like Homer.

    The Athens/Sparta comparison is very interesting. I think we in the west like to think ourselves cultural descendants of Athens as more "enlightened" than if we were the descendants of Sparta. But I am coming to believe our culture resembles Sparta far more than we like to believe. We are a very militaristic society that has come to place a very high regard for veterans (as an example). And consider our view of wartime presidents - "Saint" Lincoln, who waged a war against his own people, being foremost among our heros. American culture is a culture that glorifies war far more than it does learning.
     
  20. Stratiotes

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    Oh - sorry - I meant to comment about women in Sparta and Athens. I read a book recently about the differences with respect to women. One reason homosexuality was so prevalent in both Sparta and Athens was the feeling that women were not an intellectual match for men and so they were just baby-makers rather than companions for the most part. A boy was by far a preferred conversationalist to a woman. It was not a sexual choice so much as a companion choice. In Sparta, women were generally more "liberated" by necessity - somebody had to run things while the men were off fighting or training for the next fight - much like the "Rosey the rivetter" of WWII. In a way, women ultimately ruled the men since it was they who raised the boys to become men and, it is believed by some, mothers were the ones who warned their sons to come back with their shield or on it (as in it being used as their stretcher). Women did not share the same status in Athens where men were free to run things at home as they did at work.
     

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