And so it begins.....

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bro. Curtis, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. - Refusing to allow gay couples to hold civil unions in a boardwalk pavilion has cost a Methodist church group in Monmouth County its state tax exemption for the property.
    The state Department of Environmental Protection on Monday stripped the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association of a property tax exemption for the boardwalk pavilion because the group refuses to make it equally available to all people , a requirement for tax exemption under state law.
    "It is clear that the pavilion is not open to all persons on an equal basis," DEP Commissioner Lisa Jackson wrote in a letter to the association Monday.


    http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/...tripsoceangroveoftaxbreakingayunionsflap.html
     
  2. Mike McK

    Mike McK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all, let me say that if you're ever in Northern New Jersey, you have to go to the Tabernacle in Ocean Grove it's a wonderful old Victorian building with little cabins set up around it. It's one of the last strongholds of sound doctrines and holiness in the doctrinal trainwreck that is the UMC.

    When I was a kid, my youth group used to go there all the time.

    Second, good for them. I hope they sue. They'll win in about three seconds.

    I just can't get over the idea that it's a United Methodist group that's standing up against gay marriage.
     
    #2 Mike McK, Sep 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2007
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    Which side do you mean by "they" ?
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Taking a stand for one's principles can be costly - in this case a tax exemption.
     
  5. Mike McK

    Mike McK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Methodists. As I understand the law, the state can't compel them to go against their beliefs by threatening to revoke their tax-exempt status. That's a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    Also, I noticed the area is open to the public, gays are not restricted from going there to enjoy the boardwalk, they just do not perform gay marriages.

    I agree, Mike. Thanx.
     
  7. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,896
    Likes Received:
    294
    It is good to see at least some Methodists take a stand.

    I hope they plow it under and make a parking lot out of it before they allow themselves to be forced to violate Christian precepts.
     
  8. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think this is a big deal. Nobody is denying the church freedom of conscience. If you feed at the government trough, you play by the government's rules.

    If churches would pay thir own way, there would be no issue. Choose who you serve.
     
  9. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    It's no big deal to Maggie here that bodies of government are offering tax exemptions based on church doctrine, not on the religious/charitable character of the institution themselves.
     
  10. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    Serious question...What do you mean by that statement?

    Do you think churches ought to pay taxes?
     
  11. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's no big deal to Alkie here that his statement is not at all what I am saying. Please show where I said anything about doctrine.
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes I do. Churches get utility hook ups, fire and police protection, trash pickup, etc., yet we all subsidize that through our taxes...even for religions with which we disagree. We pay for the services for churches, mosques, synagogues, and even covens if they are organized. Let religion pay its own way. I see this as a violation of the First Amendment. Plus it would keep government out of the church's business.
     
  13. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with this at least in the case of most churches. If they own so much property that they can't afford the taxes, sell some of it. If they are fiscally in good shape, cut the strings of government. I fought this fight in my church some years ago, but lost, and I suspect that's the case for most churches.

    There is a humorousness in listening to a pastor who doesn't really know the rules, and is trying to say something he feels is on the edge.
     
  14. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, but you know, hillclimber, the attraction of tax exemption is strong. The pull should be freedom to proclaim and practice the gospel, not to save a few bucks on taxes.
     
  15. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm betting there will be more and more trouble that comes from the 501c3 status. But leave it in place (as a law) and encourage your church to back out. Good Providence (luck) though.
     
    #15 hillclimber1, Sep 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2007
  16. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know about your area, but our church pays for trash pickup, utility service, etc, etc.

    I can tell you this, if the government starts to tax our church, we will have to fold up. We are a small congregation of mainly lower-class folks. We don't have a yearly budget, and we have never spent more than $10,000 on anything (all bills total) in a single year.

    If you want to run small churches like mine into the ground, then push ahead with your idea.
     
  17. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly. We agree again.:laugh:
     
  18. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Surely a sign of the apocalypse! :laugh: :thumbs:
     
  19. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is why I said most churches up above here. I think the body of believers should step up and stand up for the freedom to preach the whole gospel without fear that their 501c3 status brings, and pony up the taxes, or continue on with increasing pressures that will come.

    Bro. James: You don't pay your pastor, or secretary, or have a youth group budget?
     
  20. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    We're Primitive Baptist. We don't have auxiliaries such as formal "youth groups" or anything. Our Pastor is paid a small amount when he preaches for us the same as any other minister is paid when he preaches for us. His appointments at our church are twice a month. The amount is about enough to pay for his gas and a meal or two. I am the church clerk/secretary, and no, I don't get paid. We don't have a regular staff or anything.
     

Share This Page

Loading...