Andersonville Seminary

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is it that a banner for Andersonville Seminary pops up at the top of these forums every time I come to this page? [​IMG]

    Does anyone know the fate of Slidell Baptist Seminary? The "school" is based in Slidell Louisiana. Some will recall that a few months back it was discussed here on this forum. I had a interesting email exchange with the president of that school as well.

    Martin.
     
  2. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martin,

    I'm not sure why you see a banner. It doesn't happen to me. Maybe it has something to do with the way your cookies are set up.

    I looked at Slidell's website but it doesn't say anything about the results of Katrina.

    My sister-in-law lives in Slidell and I know there is a lot of damage there, but I don't know where the seminary is in relation to her house.
     
  3. paidagogos

    paidagogos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    0
    They're an advertiser here!
     
  4. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did not know that. I've never had the pop up. I didn't know there were advertisements on this board.
     
  5. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    In general I just found it funny since Andersonville is unaccredited. [​IMG]
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Folks may opt for unaccredited schools and get very good educations. And very poor educations from some accredited schools.

    We do have a blend of advertizers here. IF a pop-up comes that is offensive, please pm me. Occasionally one that looks good on the filters "slips thru" and must be blocked by the webmaster by code.
     
  7. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    I have considered taking the Masters in Biblical Studies from Andersonville when I'm finished with my MEd. The school isn't accredited like others have said. ACSI will accept their Bible courses, for Bible credit, but not the degrees they lead too. Same thing for the seminary in Dothan Al (the name escapes me at the moment). I think that's odd that they'll accept the credits and not the degrees.
     
  8. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bethany is in Dothan.

    The courses I have taken for my D.Min. at Andersonville have been great, particularly the ones in counseling. Even though it is not accredited by an organization recognized by the Department of Education, it is affordable and will provide me with the tools needed for ministry. They are seeking accredidation through one of the Dept. of Ed. but have said if that would raise the tuition significantly, they probably would not go through with it. I've seen some seminaries that have a tuition for a D.Min. of $655 a credit hour.

    Dr. Bob said it very well. Lack of accredidation doesn't mean a substandard education and accrediation does not guarantee it.
     
  9. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Absolutely. I learned more about curriculum development and evaluation in the masters program at a state university than the students I knew who graduated with a MRE from SWBTS.
     
  10. paidagogos

    paidagogos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Call them and ask them about the recognized accreditation that they are supposedly pursuing. Ask them the name of the accreditor. Ask to speak with Dr. Hayes, the President. He gets a little perturbed over this question.

    Many of the instructors that they claim as faculty are not actually faculty members at Andersonville. These are courses purchased through a third-party vendor. IMHO, it is misleading to claim mean such as Bloomberg, Bock, Bremer, Feinberg, Davis, Carroll, Conn (deaceased), Mulholland, Lewis, Mabery (deceased), Toon, Smith, Whitcomb, et. al. as faculty. Whereas you may listen to their tapes and lectures, these professors never see your work or have any feedback to you. Other guys with less than wonderful degrees (look at all the resident faculty with the mail-order doctorates) review all your work. This is not the same as having these recognized teachers as your teacher. There is no interaction with them. No quality control and interactive instruction exists.

    BTW, I don’t think much of their counseling program. Notice that they use the NCCA program that is neither Christian nor academically credible. Arno, the NCCA President, has only one legitimate degree—an undergrad degree from Shaw University, a pre-dominantly black school in Raleigh, NC. The grad degrees are the mail-order variety with flyweight academics. If you want some real Christian counseling training, check out:

    http://www.nouthetic.org/

    It is economical, credible and Biblically sound. You’ll get to hear Jay Adams who is a part of this institute.

    IMHO, Andersonville does not meet the standards for accreditation by any recognized accreditor. Their line about tuition is just a safety net.
     
  11. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    I basically agree with Paid's estimate of Andersonville.
     
  12. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==I second that, I fully agree with Paid.

    If you want an education go through a fully accredited school, several have solid distance learning programs (Liberty, Luther Rice, Southern Evangelical, Moody, etc). Andersonville (etc) is fine if you are really looking for a Bible study, but it is not a strong academic program. If all one wants is a Bible study one could sign up with Liberty Home Bible Institute and get the same type thing (teacher is Harold Willmington, of Willmington's Guide to the Bible).

    To give Andersonville its due it has turned out some great students and has at least one good professor. I am really fond of Dr Harley Howard. He has several degrees from Andersonville and I am aware that he teaches several courses for them as well. I have read alot of his commentaries and, over all, I like what I read. I have purchased his commentary on ACTS and plan to purchase another at a future time. The only problem I have with him is his KJVO and the fact that he distances himself from Liberty University (where he got his undergraduate degree I think). [​IMG]

    Martin.
     
  13. PatsFan

    PatsFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with everything you said about Andersonville. I looked at their catalog. It doesn't really help their case that they offer low budget no frills, degrees and more expensive, higher quality degrees. I've never really heard of that approach to education. That sounds more like an airline approach to education, first class and coach.
     
  14. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a student at Andersonville working on my D.Min. I recognize it is not the absolute best school available, but it meets my needs. I also recognize that I am not going to get all I need from any school, accredited, non-accredited, SBC seminary or non-SBC seminary. I recognize that some folks will not consider me to have any education at all.

    I would beg to differ. The majority of my knowledge has come from 20 years of self study of the bible, not from formal education. I know folks who have graduated from accredited, denominational schools that are relatively ignorant. I know a fourth year student at a denominational seminary that wonders if his brother who is a practicing Morman will go to Heaven. What are they teaching there?

    A friend dropped out of Liberty's program because he was getting "A"s but wasn't learning anything of practicality.

    Where you went to school is no guarantee of your knowledge.

    I have learned from my studies at Andersonville. Because they are unaccredited, does that make what I learned useless?
     
  15. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, according to some,no according to others.
     
  16. ascund

    ascund
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Plain Old Bill

    This is the reason why DIBS stopped its distance based program. It was by far the best organized system around. But the originator realized that public education is a farce - even so called worldly degrees for studying God's Word.

    The highly organized system of seminaries has fallen prey to the devil's snares.

    Lloyd
     
  17. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who is DIBS?
     
  18. ascund

    ascund
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    He POB

    It was the Disciples Institute for Biblical Studies. The program was just beginning a huge success when the originator shut it down.

    He saw people excelling in his classes who were anything but examples of Christ. Perhaps CoCers got going in it trying to redefine God's Word according to their Christ-denying human-centered self-righteous system of death and despair?!?

    I really don't know the actual reason.

    Lloyd
     
  19. UZThD

    UZThD
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    ===

    Ian

    I want you to know that I have no cause to doubt your sincerity. Neither do I have a sufficient background to judge a DMin in praxis program. My areas are Biblical studies and systematic theology.So, I will limit my comments only to grad degrees in these in regard to Andersonville.

    I think no one at BB would say that studying for God is a waste of effort regardless of where it is done. Of course one can learn from Andersonville's programs. That is not the issue IMO.The issue is how to measure the rigor and the substance of grad degrees in Bible and in Theology.

    Once on another board I had a lengthy discussion with a fellow who lives in San Diego County named Jason. Jason had just finished Bethany's of Dothan MA in Bible with an "A" average. He now was in the Bethany PhD in Bible. Jason opined that the best tool for doing Greek word studies was Strong's Concordance. I hope you see the irony in that.

    Perhaps we should back up and ask should Biblical Theological grad degrees be rigorous and measured to be such?

    I think so. I think that we should do best for God. If one comes away from a program with an MDiv or a ThM in Bible/Theology , then I think that should indicate something besides spending three or four years in a program. But what should it indicate?

    Why should it not indicate that such a grad is prepared to enter and successfully complete a doctorate in a regionally accredited or foreign equivalent university or seminary?

    Now the issue is really not governmentally recognized accreditation. It is not! The issue is really what the student by education can do. Look at Bob Jones or Detroit Baptist. Grads from these go on to finish accredited doc programs. But how many grads of Andersonville do? If the answer in "none" or "very few" why is that?

    Why is that? I suggest that you look at the minimal prereqs to enter the doc programs at DTS or TEDS or The Master's Seminary or the Baptist in Pa. Judge for yourself whether an Andersonville MDiv or ThM prepares one to enter any of these. If it does not, why is that?

    Yes, the entry bar into such accredited doc programs is high. But if it is not high, then how can that program be rigorous? The instruction would need to be dumbed down because it is so easy to get in! So, is the entry bar to get into the Andersonville doc program in Bible high or low? If not high, why is that?

    Another issue is teaching. If, say, the Andersonville doc in Bible or Theology is in fact rigorous, then how many grads of that program teach Bible/Theology in accredited schools (ie really accredited)? If the answer is "none" or very few", why is that?

    Actually, there is yet another issue. Often it is claimed that someone is taking a sub standard doc program because they really only want to study not to get a degree. Then why enroll in such a program at all? Why not just study and not get to be called "Dr."? One does not nedd to be in a doc program to order, eg, ITS tapes!

    Again, another issue is that it certainly is true that "we get out of a course of study what we choose to put into it." But IMO, it should not be a choice. It should be required that we must work very hard if the program really is rigorous! WE do this for God!

    Again, another issue is the possibility of the inequity in a situation where some complete very substantial work for degrees and others don't for the very same degrees. One must ask is that really Christian.

    But who is to judge what standards should be met to best assure rigor? IMO that is the accreditor.

    Somewhat co incidentally, when I was in the UZ ThD program I was in the American Seminary (Oklahoma) program in a DMin in Bible (yes in Bible!). That school was TRACS accredited . However, after I had completed two or three courses the school lost its accreditation.

    One reason for this loss was that the school did not hire profs with accredited (really accredited) terminal degrees in the areas of instruction. The accreditor and many Christian academics believe that one who teaches grad courses in Bible or Theology should have accredited docs in Bible or Theology. I think this is appropriate. How many profs at Andersonville who teach grad Bible/theology have accredited (really accredited) docs in those areas? If none or ver few, why is that?

    But despite all these sentiments I here express, I've no cause to doubt your sincerity or the sincerity of others "at" Andersonville. I guess we just must agree to disagree.

    God bless all of you 'there'

    Bill

    [ September 17, 2005, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
  20. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    "A friend dropped out of Liberty's program because he was getting "A"s but wasn't learning anything of practicality."

    ___________________________________
    Brother Ian,

    A person can attend a fully accredited seminary, or graduate school of any sort, and get nothing out of it. That has more to do with the individual and less to do with the school. Andersonville, no matter how convenient or less expensive than Liberty, Southeastern, Trinity Evangelical, is not up to those academic standards. Their "doctoral" programs do not require the academic standards required my most graduate schools for entrance into such programs (languages, GRE, MAT, etc). Those standards, btw, are there for a very good reason. What is that reason? To make sure, to the best of their ability, that only qualified students enter those programs. Anyone who studies can earn an associates, bachelors, or masters degree from most any school (accredited or not). I have a BA in Sociology from UNC Pembroke but that does not mean I am an expert in Sociology (far from it, in fact). I have a MA in Religion from Liberty University but that does not make me ready for a PhD program at Liberty, Southeastern, or any place else. That is why I am entering another MA program (hopefully ancient history) and taking more courses from Liberty (via online learning). I am doing this to get ready for a PhD in history. The point of all of that is this: if you want to be ready for a real doctorate program (DMin, PhD, or ThD) you must do some heavy academic preparation. That is something Andersonville cannot give you, and its doctoral programs are not on par with doctoral programs at other schools. This is why Andersonville is not accredited! The excuse about price is just that, an excuse. The fact is if they want to be accredited they will have to reform (just as Trinity College of the Bible and Seminary are doing) and raise their standards.

    You should look into Luther Rice's DMin program (if you have an accredited Masters degree). If not look into their MDiv and DMin programs. They offer them online with limited residency requirments. That would serve you much better than Andersonville (in several ways).

    I am not saying Andersonville is bad (it is not). They have some good qualities that I do admire. However they are not up to the academic standards that are normally required (by Christian and nonChristian schools) for doctoral programs.

    At any rate, that is my view.

    "I have learned from my studies at Andersonville. Because they are unaccredited, does that make what I learned useless?"

    ==No it is not "useless", no education is useless. It is a matter of academic standards and what will serve you better in the long run. I wish you all the best in your studies and I pray that the Lord will fulfill His purpose in your life. I also pray that you will seriously consider Luther Rice (or another accredited school) to earn your degree(s) from. That will serve you better in the long run.

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     

Share This Page

Loading...