Angels and CoHabiting with Mankind?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Jun 8, 2014.

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  1. righteousdude2

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    Seriously .... was it possible, according the the Bible for angels to cohabitate with humans? I cam across this verse while reading Jude, and found it interesting and probing.

    "And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.…"

    In these passages (ob 1: 6 and 2:1. There it is used of angels, both holy and fallen, since Satan was among them. In Job 38:7, the “sons of God” are the angels who rejoiced at the creation of the earth), do the words, "Sons of God" refer to fallen angels, and if so did they cohabitate with the daughters of men?

    I would like your opinion, and becuse of this sin, was it one of the key reasons God sent the flood?
     
  2. CarlandBeth

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    great topic

    Great topic, I look forward also to this discussion....I don't believe the fallen angel/man interaction was the reason for the flood....it was that the every thought of man was continuously wicked. However, it will be interesting to read other's thoughts on this topic. I certainly could be wrong.

    I have also heard it preached that the days before Jesus' return will be "just" as in the days of Noah...and that fallen angels again will interact/be in relationships with humans again....I am not convinced necessarily of that. What does everyone else think?

    Beth
     
  3. Crabtownboy

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    I will have to do some research, but I believe in the NT there is at least one statement, maybe more, that indicates that angels are genderless. Also I do not believe they are physical as we are physical.
     
  4. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    No. ........
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    I don't know guys. I used to believe that it was impossible. I believed that for a long time. I used to believe "the sons of God" and the "daughters of men" were the descendants of Seth and Cain. But, what about all the descendants of Adam and Eve's other many, many children? And was EVERY person in Seth's lineage godly and EVERY person in Cain's lineage ungodly?

    Also, how could the marriages between two humans produce giant offspring?

    I lean now to something that I fought against for years.

    I believe that fallen angelic beings either [a] posed as men or possessed men and married human women and procreated with them.

    Here's my thinking:

    • God told Satan that his downfall would be from the "seed of the woman". Satan had no idea which woman. Satan is a created being and is not omniscient as God is. So he hatched a plan to defile the "seed" of as many woman as possible - ergo, in his evil mind to thwart God's plan.
    • The Old Testament uses the phrase "sons of God" to specifically mean angelic beings, including Satan. (It's in Job - I'll have to look it up.)
    • Jesus, in Matthew, doesn't say that angels don't have procreative potential. He said that we would live in heaven like the angels do - they don't marry. Why don't angels marry? Is it because they are sexless? I don't think so. I think it's because there are no female angels TO marry. Does that mean no females go to heaven? No, it just means males and females in heaven won't marry or live as married.
    • Also, angels can LOOK and act human. The men of Sodom believed the two angels to be human men and wanted to have sex with them. Angels also are said to eat and take a human male appearance when necessary.
    • Why aren't angels still trying to defile the seed of the woman? They can't. God has them bound until judgement day. (Jude and 2 Peter) Genesis 6:4 does say that the Nephilim did appear "afterward" - perhaps meaning after the Flood as they are mentioned again after the Flood - (I'll have to look that up, too, I can't remember where.) Did some of Noah's sons or daughters-in-law posses some of this tainted genetic material? I don't know. Perhaps it was that some of these people resembled Nephilim and frightened people.
    • The devil has tried to prevent God's plan from coming to fruition before by interfering with the "be fruitful and multiply" part of God's plan. He moved Herod to kill the baby boys and also Pharaoh.
    None of this is a hill I would die on, but it's where I am know after much re-thinking and study.


    This wasn't an easy switch for me.
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    Matther 23:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Yes, I cited that in my post. This just means that angels do not marry. It does not imply sexless or genderless. We will retain our gender. I will a woman in heaven and you will be a man. Jesus said humanity just won't marry.
     
  8. kyredneck

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    Scarlett, I've posted this before, it sounds as if you may somewhat agree with Pink on this:

    “....It is a significant fact that some versions of the Septuagint contain the word "angels" in Genesis 6:2, 4......These "sons of God," then, appear to be angels who left their own habitation, came down to earth, and cohabited with the daughters of men. Before we consider the outcome of this illicit intercourse, let us first enquire into the cause of it. Why did these angels thus "sin" (2 Pet. 2:4)? The answer to this question leads us into a mysterious subject which we cannot now treat at length: the "why" finds its answer in Satan.

    Immediately after that old serpent, the Devil, had brought about the downfall of our first parents, God passed sentence on the "serpent" and declared that the woman’s "Seed" should "bruise his head" (Gen. 3:15). Hence, in due course, Satan sought to frustrate this purpose of God. His first effort was an endeavor to prevent his Bruiser entering this world. This effort is plainly to be seen in his attempts to destroy the channel through which the Lord Jesus was to come.

    First, God revealed the fact that the Coming One was to be of human kind, the woman’s Seed, hence, as we shall seek to show, Satan attempted to destroy the human race. Next, God made known to Abraham that the Coming One was to be a descendant of his (Gen. 12:3; Galatians 3:18; Matthew 1:1); hence, four hundred years later, when the descendants of Abraham became numerous in Egypt Satan sought to destroy the Abrahamic stock, by moving Pharaoh to seek the destruction of all the male children (Ex. 1:15, 16). Later, God made known the fact that the Coming One was to be of the offspring of David (2 Samuel 7:12, 13); hence, the subsequent attack made upon David through Absalom (2 Samuel 15). As, then, the Coming One was to be of the seed of David, He must spring from the tribe of Judah, and hence the significance of the divided Kingdom, and the attacks of the Ten Tribes upon the Tribe of Judah!

    The reference in Jude 6 to the angels leaving their own habitation, appears to point to and correspond with these "sons of God" (angels) coming in unto the daughters of men. Apparently, by this means, Satan hoped to destroy the human race (the channel through which the woman’s Seed was to come) by producing a race of monstrosities. How nearly he succeeded is evident from the fact, that with the exception of one family, "all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth" (Gen. 6:12). That monstrosities were produced as the result of this unnatural union between the "sons of God" (angels) and the daughters of men, is evident from the words of Genesis 6:4: "There were giants in the earth in those days." The Hebrew word for "giants" here is nephilim, which means fallen ones, from "naphal" to fall. The term "men of renoun" in Genesis 6:4 probably finds its historical equivalent in the "heroes" of Grecian mythology. Satan’s special object in seeking to prevent the advent of the woman’s "Seed" by destroying the human race was evidently an attempt to avert his threatened doom!"

    Gleanings in Genesis, A. W. Pink, chap 11. The Flood, Genesis 6
     
  9. Scarlett O.

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    Yes, that's pretty much where I am.

    And as I said, it's been a 180 degree turn for me. I taught against what I know believe about this. I just couldn't wrap my mind around something so far-fetched actually happening.

    But I believe now that it did.
     
  10. Crabtownboy

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    Sex outside of marriage. That would make them rather immoral wouldn't it?
     
  11. Scarlett O.

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    When I said that angels and people won't be "sexless" in heaven, I meant the won't be exempt from having characteristics that identify a gender. What all that entails, I don't know.

    I don't believe humans will be having sex in heaven. Sex serves a few specific functions here - procreation, marital bonding, representation of one flesh - we won't have that in heaven says Jesus. No marriage. And no immorality in heaven.
     
    #11 Scarlett O., Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Wow, what an incomprehensible stretch of Scripture! Here's the passage in question:
    Jude, NASB
    6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
    First of all, "domain" is translated from the Greek arche, which means their point of origin. In other words, they left God. It has nothing to do with physical location. Second, the verse says He has kept these angels "in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day."

    They didn't come to Earth. They've been bound in hell since their rebellion. So one might ask, if that's the case, how there are demons loose in the world? Obvious: Satan is still free, so not all are bound. That said, cohabitation of angels with humans is impossible. The real answer to the Genesis 6:2 controversy is found in Genesis 5:6-32, the godly line of Seth, vs. Genesis 4:16-24, the ungodly, or unrighteous, line of Cain.

    This whole controversy comes from a long-overlooked fact about the passage: it doesn't say that the Nephilim are angels, therefore it doesn't move on from the subjects of the previous chapter, which ended discussing the godly line of Seth. It simply says this happened in the day of the Nephilim. The word "Nephilim" actually comes from the verb naphal in Hebrew, meaning "to fall upon." marking them as an aggressive people. The word "giant" (as tall) was first used in 6:4 in the LXX and does not really reflect the meaning of the word.
    Actually, it not just implies, but explicitly states that we will not be capable of marital relations in heaven. Angels are sexless as referenced in Matthew 22:30, where the Greek word gamisko, translated "given," refers to the aspect of the bride and groom giving themselves to one another sexually to consummate the marriage. As Jesus says in the verse there will be no such activity in heaven, it is indicative of the fact the angels, who are spirit beings after all, are not able to give themselves in marriage. In Genesis 6:2, the words "took wives for themselves" signify a lasting marriage. The reference has to do with the breakdown of the separation of the godly line of Seth by intermarriage with the godless line of Cain. The expression "sons of God" refers to all the godly, and "daughters of men" to all the ungodly, and sets the stage for Noah being called upon to preserve the godly line by building an ark to protect them when God destroys the Earth.

    Undoubtedly this was, as you mentioned, a Satanic plan, but not to the extent that angels, fallen or otherwise, had anything to do with the intermingling of the godly and evil bloodlines of man.
     
    #12 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jun 9, 2014
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  13. Bro. Curtis

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    I think people are confusing angels with resurrected humans. Angels are male. (sons of God) And they do roam the Earth.

    The verse Crabtownboy is referencing has nothing to do with angels . (Edited to add..I now see Crabtownboy meant to put up Matthew 22) He might be referencing Christ's response to the Pharisees asking about the brothers who married the same bride after their death. If that is the case, that has nothing to do with angels. To say we all be "as the angels" means simply there will be no need for brides, or grooms in Heaven.
     
    #13 Bro. Curtis, Jun 9, 2014
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  14. Bro. Curtis

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    We are the collective bride. The scriptures reference the groom's excitement for his new bride, in explaining how God rejoices over us.
     
  15. Scarlett O.

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    I agree. You said it just right.
     
  16. percho

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    I am going to quote you for what you quoted from Pink covers some interesting thoughts to myself.

    From Jude 6; They left their habitation οἰκητήριον which is the word for our habitation of new body spoken of in 2 Cor 5:2. It is the habitation we earnestly desire to be clothed with which is incorruptible and no longer mortal.

    Remember from the beginning we are dealing with Satan.

    Why was the woman taken from the man, Adam created in the image of God?

    The woman was taken from the man, Adam? They were both naked and unashamed.

    How was the Christ, the sinless one, who was preordained to die going to come into the world?

    Was it to be by a woman? Woman taken from man made in the image of his creator God? Would she have to be pure? A virgin to give birth to the Christ?

    The woman was deceived by the serpent. Was the serpent Satan? I say yes.
    What was Satan trying to accomplish? What about the man?

    God had created the man a living soul. Flesh and blood that makes up a living soul, See Lev 17:11 The life (nephesh, soul) of the flesh is in the blood. Man.

    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    They knew they were naked and they were dead in trespass and sin.

    What did Satan introduce to the man and the woman? Is the following relative to what took place in the garden?


    But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
    Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
    Matt 1:20-25

    Spirit the God generated the egg of the virgin woman, Mary and she brought forth God with us Jesus?

    Would this be relative to Satan also working through spirit beings and leaving their οἰκητήριον and the women bringing forth?
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Would say that it would be fallen angels possessing the physical bodies of sinners, and using their Sperm for the product!

    And those fallen angels lusted after 'strange flesh", which would not make any sense if they were JUST men alone, as they were going after women to have sex with, and that would be a "natural" thing to do!
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    re!

    We will be like the Angels in the sense that we will have a body fir for heaven, and will NOT be procreating, as there will be no additions to heaven, its a fixed eternal number of the redeemed, and ALL who are
    there where were saved by a spiritual rebirth, not a physical one!,
     
  19. CarlandBeth

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    really interesting


    This was really insightful...thank you!
     
  20. kyredneck

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    Those are some deep thoughts percho.

    I believe Adam and Eve contain a type of Christ and His bride, the Church.
     
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