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Anger v Compassion

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003.

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  1. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    Our reading this morning was from Mark chapter 1 - the preacher did not use the KJV and that was what I was following in. When he read verse 41 he read "anger " for "compassion" - these two words have such a different meaning..... :confused: I feel that Jesus was more likely to have felt compassion, as anger is a hostile feeling. Can anyone help with comment on this?
     
    #1 Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    A survey of the major versions shows no version that read "anger" in Mark 1:41. All say that he moved with compassion or pity. Your pastor may have simply misspoke. That often happens to us public speakers. You speak often enough, you are boudn to mess something up.
     
    #2 Pastor Larry, Jan 12, 2003
  3. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    Thanks for your reply Pastor Larry,I did ask him about the difference, and he said that some things were different in translation, I was hoping he would show me in his book - but he didn`t offer to :( I wish he`d checked, no one else said anything, and they, non of whom carried a bible with them, just accepted what was said, I realise that speaking in public is a difficult thing, I`m no good at it, but was thoroughly dismayed by this lapse, and the wrong understanding that some of the congregation may have had by it.
    some spelling mistakes edited,may be more :rolleyes: but not so bad.

    [ January 12, 2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Gwyneth ]
     
    #3 Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003
  4. Refreshed

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    New Living Translation and Contemporary English Version both refer to manuscripts that use "anger" in place of compassion or pity.
     
    #4 Refreshed, Jan 12, 2003
  5. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    Yes ! that`s the version , I think he said New Living translation - but anger is a hostile emotion, and compassion is of love as far as I understand - so different in meaning to ordinary folk like me. This is confusing don`t you think? The people in the chapel today, did not have bibles with them, not one apart from myself, as I like to follow the reading. They could have the wrong idea of what happened.
     
    #5 Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003
  6. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    what is the ORIGINAL word, and what does it mean...anger or compassion. :confused:
     
    #6 Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003
  7. Refreshed

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    You can be confident that when the Bible says "compassion," it means compassion. You should have no doubts as to the authenticity of this rendering in the KJV, and you *should* have doubts as to the reasoning behind putting anger in that verse.

    Even the Living Bible says "pity" which is synonymous with compassion, not that I place any authority in the Living Bible.

    The greek word is "splagchnizomai" and means (according to Strong's) to have the bowels yearn, i.e. feel sympathy, to pity: have (be moved with) compassion.

    Jason

    [ January 12, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Refreshed ]
     
    #7 Refreshed, Jan 12, 2003
  8. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    The New Living Translation reads: "Moved with pity...." It does not translate it anger. The word translated is "splagch nis theis" (thats a transliteration since I don't know how to put greek letters on the BB). The word is used elsewhere in the NT in Mt. 18:27, 20:34, and in Mark 9:22. In the greek lexicons I checked, I found none that defined the word as "anger". I cannot see anything in the context of Mk 1:41 or the other verses which would cause one to take it to mean anger. Sorry, but I don't know where that translation of the word is coming from.
     
    #8 swaimj, Jan 12, 2003
  9. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    I will `phone the preacher in question tomorrow, and ask him to tell me the version he used, and if I can get him to read the verse for me from his Bible, I will. CU tomorrow, God willing.... going to [​IMG]
     
    #9 Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003
  10. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Oops, I do now see the note in the NLT that some manuscripts have moved with... and then a word translated anger--the word is transliterated "orgistheis". The New Revised Standard includes a note to that effect as well.

    There are two strategies which can help us determine which word should actually be there. One is to check the parallel passages in the other synoptic gospels to see what they say. However, in this instance the parallels are not any help as they do not describe Jesus' emotional reaction to the leper at all (cf. Mt 8:3 and Lk 5:13).

    The second is to look at the context and see which word fits better. "Compassion" seems a better fit since Jesus says "I am willing" and heals the man. However, you could make an argument from the context for anger as well because Jesus "sternly" warns the man not to tell anyone in verse 43. Perhaps this is what your pastor was thinking of when he made his decision on how to preach the text. I'm not sure I agree with his decision but, at the same time, there does seem to be some basis for it.
     
    #10 swaimj, Jan 12, 2003
  11. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    ......STILL AWAKE.......thanks for your reply, I thought the preacher may have chosen that word because Jesus knew the heart of the leper, and knew that he was going to disobey him by telling people, but I still think that `anger` is an inappropriate word for the occasion, because Jesus healed the man out of compassion.

    [ January 12, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Gwyneth ]
     
    #11 Gwyneth, Jan 12, 2003
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    splagchnizomai = moving of the bowels. It is a Greek word that may be used for a great range of emotions, from compassion (moving me) to rage (moving me)

    Just because the AV1611 selected one possible interpretation of the Greek does not mean it is the only interpretation. Hence why Bible students study Greek!
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, Jan 12, 2003
  13. Refreshed

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    Dr. Bob,

    Why don't you point out one version of the Bible that says "anger" instead of "compassion." Do you think I was wrong to tell Gwyneth that the King James Version (which she was using, so it is applicable) translates correctly when all other versions do so as well? It is the only interpretation and in fact, to my knowlege has always been translated as "compassion" or "pity" in the English language.

    Her version, as I said, is reliable in its translation of the Greek word, "splagchnizomai," as I said.

    Jason :D
     
    #13 Refreshed, Jan 13, 2003
  14. Gwyneth

    Gwyneth <img src=/gwyneth.gif>

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    If the original word meant being moved to ?????Why not leave it as .... And Jesus, being moved, put forth his hand......
    most would understand that, and it would still imply compassion rather than anger.I still think that anger is a `wrong word` in the translation because of the context of the verse.....i.e. kneeling down/touching him/"I will; be thou clean", compassionate actions,and words, not angry.
     
    #14 Gwyneth, Jan 13, 2003
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