Anglican or Episcopal Church..?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Turbeville, Apr 18, 2004.

  1. Turbeville

    Turbeville
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    Jude...does the Episcopal Church believe in a common prayer in your services with everyone saying the same words together from a "set text"?

    Is the same prayers said every Sunday or from the same text?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Jim1999

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    Turbeville,

    Having grown up in the Church of England, I will answer the question. The Book of Common Prayer which has the order of services does have set prayers and responses, and certain prayers are said every Sunday. This does not exclude a pastoral prayer, which is not in any book. Anglicans are taught the importance of personal prayer. During the service, they often pray individually for the ill in the community....there is also a period of silence when individuals may offer up prayers for people or situations peculiar to them.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    PS&gt; Wife and I attend an Anglican Church regularly, and my wife remains an Anglican.
     
  3. Jude

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    The answer to your question is "yes". Some people are 'turned off' by liturgy (although of course every church has liturgy), and prefer prayers 'from the heart', so-to-speak. I understand this, but also understand that for me, and millions of other Christians, just because something is prayed from a 'text' doesn't mean it isn't from the heart. And of course, the early Christians (and our Jewish forebears, and Jesus too!)worshipped this way too.

    My experience is like many who have 'converted' to Anglicanism. I was converted through the ministry of Billy Graham in my early 20's. I studied, read, prayed, seeking God's will for my life, and especially, which 'denomination' I would serve in. I visited them all. But I decided to try the church of my roots, the United Methodist Church. I went, after a very-negative experience with the leadership in that denomination, to a conservative seminary called Asbury, in Wilmore, Kentucky. It was and is a very-fine school. But something was missing. While I agreed with almost-all I was taught, there was something missing spiritually, but I had no-clue what it was. One day, a friend asked me to go to Lexington to visit an Episcopal Church, and attend a Eucharist. I went along, and IMMEDIATELY, during worship, I KNEW that I was home. There was a dignity and reverence and holiness there that I'd not experienced in any other denomination. Now, I'm not saying there isn't any of that in other churches, but I am saying, for ME, it was like 'I was home'. I don't know how-else to describe it. The rest is history. I was ordained a priest in the Episcopal Church in 1983.

    My love for the Church has nothing to do with 'pageantry', although probably for some that IS the case. I love our liturgy, our hymnody, our connectedness with the Catholic faith.

    I am distressed over the current troubles in the Episcopal Church. But I am convinced that God is 'cleansing His Temple', and for that I am grateful. I believe that God is doing a 'cleansing' of all the denominations, and bringing us all, perhaps in this century, to a visible-kind of unity.
     
  4. Kiffin

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    I love the Morning and Evening Prayers in the BCP.
     
  5. John Gilmore

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    I do too. The Matin, Vesper, and Communion services in The Lutheran Hymnal are almost verbatim from the 1549 Anglican BCP. So, if the Anglicans would return to their first and best BCP, that would be one way of bringing at least two denominations closer together.
     
  6. Jim1999

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    I have two books of Common Prayer. my original copy from England, which is a 1918 edition, and then the 1959 Canadian Anglican Church edition.

    Currently we use a modern prayer book and I really dislike it. For one thing, one is all over the book to find the different portions of the service. The old prayer book had a continuity about it.

    I still love a good old Baptist service, but appreciate the Anglican service, and there is a good feeling when entering the pulpit to preach. I know this is emotional, but there is a greater sense of awe, having come through the service. The processional following the service lends an atmosphere conditional to worship rather than visitation in the pews whilst the church empties.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. Turbeville

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    Romans 8:26-27,

    "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh inercession for the saints according to the will of God."

    My thought is if you use common prayers from a set text each Sunday then you do not allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and it is not personal between you and God.

    Thanks!
     
  8. Jude

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    Methinks you're painting with a broad brush...

    :rolleyes:
     
  9. Turbeville

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    Jude,

    Do you have a prayer closet? Also, Are individuals in your Church allowed to say public prayers or is all public praying done as a group repeating the same words?

    Thanks!
     
  10. Jim1999

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    What is prayer?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  11. RebelBaptist

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    As Jesus himself said, "When you pray, say the following:

    Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed by thy name -----

    Sounds like a set, recited prayer to me!

    Yes, we can pray in our own words. But at the same time, there is nothing wrong with a set prayer to God.


    Rebel
     
  12. Turbeville

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    Jesus was teaching how to pray! Most of the time a routine set prayer that is used every week will become shallow and meaningless for many people and for God! Agree or disagree God still knows our heart when we pray!
     
  13. gb93433

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    Reading the verses before indicates that Jesus was addressing the issue of prayer and then gives the model prayer. He says, "Pray in this way."
     
  14. atestring

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    The answer to your question is "yes". Some people are 'turned off' by liturgy (although of course every church has liturgy), and prefer prayers 'from the heart', so-to-speak. I understand this, but also understand that for me, and millions of other Christians, just because something is prayed from a 'text' doesn't mean it isn't from the heart. And of course, the early Christians (and our Jewish forebears, and Jesus too!)worshipped this way too.

    My experience is like many who have 'converted' to Anglicanism. I was converted through the ministry of Billy Graham in my early 20's. I studied, read, prayed, seeking God's will for my life, and especially, which 'denomination' I would serve in. I visited them all. But I decided to try the church of my roots, the United Methodist Church. I went, after a very-negative experience with the leadership in that denomination, to a conservative seminary called Asbury, in Wilmore, Kentucky. It was and is a very-fine school. But something was missing. While I agreed with almost-all I was taught, there was something missing spiritually, but I had no-clue what it was. One day, a friend asked me to go to Lexington to visit an Episcopal Church, and attend a Eucharist. I went along, and IMMEDIATELY, during worship, I KNEW that I was home. There was a dignity and reverence and holiness there that I'd not experienced in any other denomination. Now, I'm not saying there isn't any of that in other churches, but I am saying, for ME, it was like 'I was home'. I don't know how-else to describe it. The rest is history. I was ordained a priest in the Episcopal Church in 1983.

    My love for the Church has nothing to do with 'pageantry', although probably for some that IS the case. I love our liturgy, our hymnody, our connectedness with the Catholic faith.

    I am distressed over the current troubles in the Episcopal Church. But I am convinced that God is 'cleansing His Temple', and for that I am grateful. I believe that God is doing a 'cleansing' of all the denominations, and bringing us all, perhaps in this century, to a visible-kind of unity.
    </font>[/QUOTE]My prayers are with you Jude!
    Last summer while on vacation in Charleston S.C. my family and I walked by St. Phillips Episcopal Church on a Sunday Evening and heard beautiful music coming out of the building and found that they were practicing for an evening service and hung around to attend the service. It was a wonderful service and just after recieving the Cup of Blessing the priest ask for prayer for the Episcopal Church. This was just prior to the week when Gene Robinson was to be allowed to be bishop in New Hampshire. He told us about a prayer written by King Charles (Charleston was named after him) who was king of England and St. Phillip was the Archbishop and they were both martyred. There was also a written statement by the bishop of South Carolina that wwas read condemning the appointment of Gene Robinson.

    The gist of the prayer was where we are wrong reform us, when our doctrine is off correct us. I saw in the people ,a cry for righteousness to return to the leadership in the Episcopal church. It was heartbreaking the next week to hear the announcement that Gene Robinson would be a bishop after experincing such a beautiful group of people that have a hunger and thirst for righteousness.
    Wheither we are Episcopal or not, as Christians we should continue to pray for the Episcopal Church and bless those who want to see a return to righteousness in God's kingdom. We should weep with those who weep in the Episcopal Church with the hope that someday we can rejoice with those who rejoice .
     
  15. Kiffin

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    Extemporaneous prayer can be just as shallow and meaningless. Many people who pray extemporaneously, pray basically the same prayer every Sunday in worship. The key thing is that the prayer comes from the heart whether it is a set prayer or a extemporaneous prayer. The Bible shows both types of prayer. The Church in Acts 4 prayed a set type liturgical prayer and in Heaven in Revelation 4 the throng around the throne repeat the same prayer, over and over again. The Bible does not condemn repetive prayer ONLY Vain Repetition.
     
  16. Jude

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    Prayer Closet? My car.
    In our liturgy, their is individual and corporate prayer...even room for 'extemporaneous' prayer.
     
  17. Rosell

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    My wife and I were attending an Episcopal church following our move to San Antonio after leaving the pastorate of a small town SBC church and before connecting with a Bible study group that started a new church and called me as pastor. I felt very much at home, found nothing in the liturgy to be inconsistent with the scripture, in fact, found the liturgy to be virtually immersed in the scripture, and had the deepest worship experiences of my life among a congregation that didn't just go through the motions, but was fully aware of the significance and meaning of each symbol used in the service.

    Every now and then, in my non-denominational church made up of ex Baptists and Charismatics, I'll slip in a liturgical service from the Book of Common prayer, substituting contemporary choruses for the hymns. When we ask members to lead in prayer, we generally ask them to write out their prayer in advance, since they are not praying for us, but leading us, so I get their cooperation and give them a copy of the BCP. On those days, we take communion the Episcopal way, offering both the common cup and intinction. I doubt most of the congregation realizes the service is an Anglican liturgy.
     
  18. Jim1999

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    I might add, that many of the sound biblical books of another generation, were written by godly Anglicans of both the high and low church.

    In Canada, oddly enough, Trinity College, the high church school, was evangelical and fundamental in theology. On the other hand, however, the gospel was preached mainly in low churches.

    Not the same picture to-day, I fear.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

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