Anointing with Oil in a non-church Setting

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I work with my wife (the doctor) and we have folks come and desire for me to anoint them with oil and pray over them for healing/God's will.

    Problem? This is a non-church, non-elders setting so would not fit the James 5 description totally. I am a 35 year ordained minister and have a burden in my heart to help these folks.

    Thoughts and insights appreciated.
     
  2. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    If the sick person were IN church, there would be no need to CALL FOR THE ELDERS. You're not only an ordained Pastor but an elder in the Biblical sense of the word. I think it's wonderful that people come to you and want your prayers!

    If I had a health concern, I'd want YOU praying for me and I would not hesitate to ask our church elders to annoint me with oil and pray over me. In fact, our younger men who have a 5:00 a.m. prayer meeting are men of great faith!

    Diane
     
  3. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Diane, Dr. Bob. I have annointed 2 sick people in non Church settings. I was in all cases the teaching Elder of the Church (Actually the only Elder in the Church!) and was asked by them to do such. I would not have any problem you annointing me if I were sick or if you were in my church. I would counsel with the Pastor to make sure it would not cause problems however since some Churches may be opposed to this.


    WOW! That is a great testimony.
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    People who are shut-ins get anointed at home. People get anointed in hospitals. People get anointed at accident sites. Why not clinics? I don't see a problem.

    It's not the location that matters, it's the person who is doing the anointing.

    "Where two or more are gathered together..." You and the person being anointed make two.
     
  5. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    What if James isn't talking about physical healing?
     
  6. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good question Dr Bob!

    As a hospital-based physician I see alot of sickness and death. I tend to see this annointing as not necessarily a physical healing... I have seen multiple cases in which I feel the God intervened. My mother in law suffered a subarachnoid hemorrhage and went to surgery comatose ( a very bad sign). Not only did she survive but she has her full faculties. As a result of this she has stepped up her witnessing tenfold, with many saved through her ministry. Thus God had a purpose in this.

    Now practically, if everyone who got sick prayed for healing and had that request granted, we would be knee-deep in people on this planet!!

    I think our prayers and annointing serve to bring us closer to God's will and heal our WILLS and SPIRITS. [​IMG]
     
  7. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Question I have is, what is up with the "oil?" Brother, all you can do is pray and maybe fast and show them some scripture that may comfort them.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Two comments,

    Diane says it's not eht oil, it's the person doing the anointing. Doesn't the text tell us that it is the prayer of faith?? That sounds to me like it is neither the oil nor the person, but the prayer that is important. I have taken anointing with oil to be symbolic of commitment to God for healing.

    For Bob, I would go a little more directly with these people: Why aren't they in church? What are the reasons they are asking you for this? James 5 is not some magic formula that brings healing. It is very specific in its context and it its teaching.
     
  9. Michael Estes

    Michael Estes
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2001
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    The location for this type of thing doesn't even remotely matter, Doc. Continue to heal and annoint in the Name of Jesus whenever and wherever the Spirit leads you to do so. Our Creator doesn't live in houses made by the hands of men anyway. So, why would He restrict His power of healing to the confines of a building? Doesn't hold much water, does it? Peace. Rev. Mike Estes.
     
  10. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Baptists tend to suffer from Romophobia or Charismaticphobia.

    Definition

    Romophobia - We can't have responsive reading, saying the creeds, candles, anoint with oil, because people may think we are Catholic. [​IMG]

    Charismaticphobia - We can't have too much emotion in church, or even raising of hands, or anoining with oil, because people may think we are Charismatic. [​IMG]

    The fact is James 5 calls for Annointing with oil. Of course you don't have to use oil but there is no prohibition against it's use and James encourages it. There is no magic healing in the oil but oil is a symbol. God often uses symbols to give comfort to his saints. Examples are Water in Baptism and Bread and Fruit of the Vine in the Lord's Supper. Water, Bread and Fruit of the Vine have no magical properties in them but are symbols of Salvation. Oil is a symbol of the the Holy Spirit's healing power and is a physical symbol of encouragement to the sick person being prayed for.
     
  11. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,454
    Likes Received:
    93
    Then 'anointing one's head with oil' is good for nothing but getting hair and fingers all greezy. But that's likely all it's good for anyway.
     
  12. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Daniel David,

    I don't think you took time to read James 5:13-16.

    The sick person is to call for the elders to pray for his or her illness. This is what James has written down for us. The instruction is with reference to a sick person. But, at the instant that the Lord heals the ill person, He {Christ} will also affect a spiritual healing in the form of forgiving the sin of the ill person, if they have need of restoration to fellowship with God. [vs. 15]

    The Lord is not limited to healing or saving a soul just in the four walls called the local church, nor during His earthly life did He need to find a Temple to heal bodies and/or souls. Our Lord healed and saved souls out-of doors, wherever He journeyed and even in Samaria. [John 4:5-30]
     
  13. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's be careful not to contradict the Biblical writers. Kings in the OT were annointed with oil and the sick were often annointed with oil also. The olive oil was a physical symbol of God's annointing of the kings of Israel and a physical reminder that God heals people. If we take that annointing oil is good for nothing but getting hair and fingers all greezy then many may also say that Water is good for nothing in baptism but getting people wet and sending the water bill up. Why even baptize converts would be the heretical conclusion! That is the danger.
     
  14. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. What a very astute observation. I just taught from this text not 2 months ago. Note that in this text, you have a GUARANTEE for healing. If it is physical, then all you have to do is get people saved, part of a local church, and then have them pray and have their head annoited with oil and voila, cured. Goodbye cancel, diabetes, etc.

    No Ray, I would encourage you to consider what someone says instead of just popping off at the mouth and suggesting that people don't read their bibles.

    :rolleyes: :(

    2. Yeah, I remember arguing just the opposite. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Daniel David,

    In your earlier post you questioned whether James was talking about physical healing and here is your statement.

    'What if James isn't talking about physical healing?'

    And in your latter post you said that you just recently taught on this subject.

    Ray is saying, 'Did you read James 5:14a? 'Is any sick among you?' Most people in the northeast United States at least, associate sickness with healing.'

    You may be right of a guaranteed healing, but I always thought that we were to factor in the will of God for each person and case. If that Christian happened to be someone that God was chastening, He may have decided to allow that person to go through a sickness for a reason. We read this in I Corinthians 11:30.

    You said that you taught on this text only two weeks ago. Please, tell us what major ideas you taught the people. My pen is ready to take notes.
     
  16. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, quite specifically, I believe he is talking about spiritual healing. Again, there is a guarantee for healing if the steps are properly followed.

    Any pastors out there want to start preaching on why cancer and other sicknesses are still among Christians if this text is about physical healing? I didn't think so.

    Also, look at the surrounding context of what James is talking about. A blurb about physical healing is out of place.
     
  17. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the context of James 5:14-16 disagrees that this is spiritual healing for it states,

    1. The prayer of faith will save the sick

    2. and then in addition to the prayer of faith saving the sick, "And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

    If this was spiritual healing there would be no need to attach AND but simply say, "The prayer of faith will save the sick and their sins will be forgiven." But AND implies there is both physical healing and forgiveness of sins. The implication is that the sick person who called for the elders, had a contrite and repentant heart and part of their time with the elders involved confessing their sins to God.

    I think this text must be understood within the broader context of Divine healing in the Bible. All prayer must be given in the context of the Will of God as the Lord's Prayer teaches us (Mat. 6) and when we pray for someone we should pray BELIEVING God will HEAL them. Too often when we pray for people, we come across as "Lord, help this person as he suffers" rather than asking and believing that God can and will perform a miracle. We often suffer from the sin of unbelief when it comes to Divine Healing (Mt. 13:58).
     
  18. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Baptism is the believers first public obedience to God, annointing with oil is not.
     
  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Agree that you cannot equate the ordinances of the church (baptism/communion) with other common practices such as anointing with oil, foot washing, etc.

    No "command" or order here, but simply a witness of the practice.

    Thanks for the replies thus far.
     
  20. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    I never said annointing with oil is the believers first public obedience to God nor that it was a ordinance. Please read posts. Annointing with oil is not a ordinance but James does encourage it's use in praying for the sick. It is a physical symbol that was used when praying for people (THOUGH IT IS NOT NECESSARY) to encourage them that God heals.
     

Share This Page

Loading...