Another #1 for Liberty U!!

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Havensdad, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. Havensdad

    Havensdad
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  2. dcorbett

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    (high five) My alma mater - Bachelor degree summa cum laude May 2009!!!

    I am trying to get my oldest grand daughter to transfer there.
     
  3. TomVols

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    I was told the story of when Falwell stood up at a pastor's conference and said that one day, there would be a fully accredited University there, competing in Division I athletics, with students from around the globe, training lawyers, ministers, "champions for Christ" in every possible field.

    People chuckled. Some laughed out loud, I was told.

    For whatever you think about Falwell, he was a visionary. It came to pass.
     
  4. Jerome

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    Boston Globe
    Here are the 2011 national tournament champions:

    National Debate Tournament: Matt Fisher & Stephanie Spies, Northwestern University

    Cross Examination Debate Association: Beth Mendenhall & Derek Ziegler, Kansas State University

    American Debate Association: Not posted, but I'm sure a Liberty duo did not win.
    ("ADA's current president is Michael Hall, debate coach of Liberty University")
     
  5. Havensdad

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    The fallacy of this (which is demonstrated on the web in multiple places, even by Liberty's competitors...), is that a single team of two people, in the varsity level only, would equate to a University being "number one." That is a ridiculous idea. The school that does best, overall, is who should rightly be considered "number one."

    Second, the idea that Liberty just competes in a lot of tournaments, and therefore gets more points, is false. It gives the impression that Liberty is not actually winning, but accumulating points through mass participation. That is wrong. Only the top two scorers get points. Liberty could have 5 billion teams, and unless they won (or placed in the top spots), it would not help them a bit.

    Last, just because people like Harvard and Northwestern choose not to let anyone but their top people compete (thus reducing their losses), and have very stringent requirements on who can join in the first place (only taking top debaters from high school, with a rigorous recruitment program), does not make their program better. That Liberty allows ANYONE to join, and ANYONE to compete, and yet is still competitive enough to be praised by one of the directors of a competing team as "one of the toughest in the country" (I believe was her comment...by memory), says LOADS about their program.

    Note, the rankings do not show who has the "best team." But I do think it is indicative of the University with the best programs...
     
  6. Havensdad

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    An excellent witness, here (from the article)...

    "The Liberty students' lifestyle may even give them an edge in a morning round. Other teams ''do a lot more drinking and more partying," said Lindsey Hoban, a senior from Mount Ariel, Pa."
     
  7. TomVols

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    Havens, you're right in pointing out the fallacies of a previous post. It's tantamount to saying that UCLA's football wins shouldn't count because they only played teams in their conference, which isn't as good as Conference X, for example. Or, by saying that UConn shouldn't be considered a real NCAA basketball champ this year because they beat teams that were not as good as other teams who were not in the tournament (at all or at the time).
     
  8. Jerome

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    Liberty Flames fans themselves provide some needed perspective:

    http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=167

     
  9. preachinjesus

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    Liberty has always been proud of its debate team. It has always placed well and often has persons from their varsity teams named best debater in a tournament. Liberty also has always put a lot of money behind their debate team...more than most Ivy League schools.

    Of course the nature of CEDA debates is that the more people who show up the more points you get. Imagine if, for instance, the BCS was decided not by the coaches poll and some odd computer calculus but how many games a team played (not won) in a season. Well if you packed your schedule from August to December you'd probably place highly regardless of outcome.

    Liberty debaters do perform well at these tournaments. Some of it is because at an 8:00 am debate their speech isn't slurred and they can put together a cognitive thought. Another reason is because they field a well informed debate.

    Funny fact, I turned down a debate scholarship when I went to Liberty. I felt led to pursue another path and it was a wise decision. I would have been happy to be on the debate team there, but am glad God had other plans for me. :)
     
  10. Havensdad

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    Yeah, you missed some important parts of that post. From the article itself...

    (Emphasis added).

    Notice 3 things: When Evangelical hating Harvard University, says of a fundamentalist university, "They're tough" that REALLY means something. That would be like Osama Bin Laden saying "George Bush is a great, honest man."

    Second: He said what he said, after being DEFEATED by the Liberty debate team.

    Remember; Harvards debaters are all hand picked, experienced high school debaters. Liberty's team consists of WHOEVER wants to participate!

    Third, the comments are just wrong. Only one of the 3 listed associations even count JV and novice level points. That means Liberty beat Harvard and the rest, on VARSITY alone!

    Again, way to go Liberty U!
     
    #10 Havensdad, Apr 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2011
  11. Jerome

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    :confused:

    Who told you that?

    ADA clearly combines all levels in the ranking cited in the OP.

    Here is the latest NTA sweepstakes with Harvard above LU in Varsity.
     
    #11 Jerome, Apr 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2011
  12. Havensdad

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    Notice in the ADA varsity rankings...

    Varsity Rankings

    1. Liberty 179.5
    2. Mary Washington 170.5
    3. Wake Forest 139.5
    4. Wayne State 138
    5. George Mason 114.5
    6. Clarion 97
    7. James Madison 95
    8. Harvard 81.5
    9. George Washington 75
    10. Pittsburgh 70.5

    Even in the other "Varsity only" rankings (which count only the top two teams from each schools top eight tournaments), Liberty is still #4. Notice that with this list, "number of tournaments" that were participated in, does not matter at all. So even if you completely eliminate Liberty's awesome novice and JV programs (which would be ridiculous, since the rankings are meant to show best SCHOOL, not best TEAM), they are STILL in the top 4 schools in the country.

    Notice, too, the tournaments that Liberty racked those varsity points up at. The ADA Nationals, and the CEDA nationals!! Harvard was there, but their two top varsity teams did not rack up the points that Liberty did...
     
  13. TomVols

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    Administrative warning

    Just a reminder (ironically) that this is not a forum where debate is allowed to be strident. Debate is minimal at best. These are fellowship forums. We're watching closely. The minute this takes any sort of turn south, the axe falls. We are committed to keeping fellowship forums as such, and safe for people not to have to worry about getting an argument every time they post. I'm giving more lattitude than I should. Just don't run with it.
     
  14. Mexdeaf

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    Congrats to Liberty. I've always kind of wondered what how my life might be different if I had continued driving a few miles further north after I got to Chattanooga instead of stopping there- LOL!
     

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