Another Catholic question- Pope

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by milby, May 30, 2012.

  1. milby

    milby
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the book I am currently reading the author made the statement that the Pope is not perfect, faultless, or sinless, but no Pope in the history of Popes has ever taught Heresy.

    Obviously many on here disagree with that. I'm looking for verifiable examples that I can research. I'm trying to get it settled in my own mind once and for all as to who is teaching truth. The Catholic Church or Protestants.
     
  2. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,616
    Likes Received:
    6
    Pope Honorious was condemned as a heretic at the 6th Ecumenical Council.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Pope Innocent III ordered a crusade against Bible believing Albigenses, and all but exterminated them. That was his goal--to wipe them out. He was an ungodly wicked man. The crusades were a time of killing people, innocent people who just wanted to live peaceably.

    The various Inquistions were set up where those who disagreed with the doctrine of the RCC were horribly tortured until they recanted their faith in Christ, and submitted to the pope.

    If you read the older commentaries, like Albert Barnes, Jameison Faucett and Brown, Matthew Henry, etc. (all easily obtainable on the internet), they will all equate the Catholic Church with the antichrist or false prophet of Revelation 17.

    Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    --No other institution on earth has killed more Christians than the RCC.
     
  4. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Before Christ ascended into heaven to sit at His Father’s right hand, He didn’t leave one man to oversee His Church…He left the Holy Spirit…The doctrines that the popes of Rome have absolute authority over all other bishops throughout Christianity and that they are infallible in matters pertaining to faith and morals are dogmas that never existed until the 9th Century, when more and more Roman popes were seeking to assert their spiritual authority as the supreme expression of the Faith.

    As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I cannot accept such beliefs because these ideals were never part of the early Church. Early Christian bishops, including Eastern Orthodox ones, have always utilized a consensus of opinions and spiritual authority, usually by council or synod. It is this wider perspective of decision making that is considered infallible due only in part by the guidance of the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ Himself regarding matters of doctrine and absolute authority.

    Then, once the councils agree, the Church has to accept it…Look no further than the Russian Orthodox Church during Communism…The Russian government did everything in their power to address and adjust the Russian Church so they could control her bishops, priests and people…but nothing was accepted that was contrary to what was already firmly in place and held fast by the Church…and thousands of people perished because of their faith…bishops, priests and Christians all were imprisoned or murdered…

    There has to be checks and balances…putting all the power in the hands of one man is a dangerous proposition…
     
  5. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Hardly one man. How about one triune God.
    The Bible has 66 books, written by about 40 different authors over a span of 1500 years, all perfectly in harmony one with another speaking of redemption through Jesus Christ. Within its pages are no contradictions, and each page is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.

    The hand of the Holy Spirit is not a dangerous proposition.
    However the wicked hands of both the RCC and EOC are.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,965
    Likes Received:
    371
    “The Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals.”

    Doctrines are considered infallible when issued by the pope in his own name according to the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching (within the official discharge of his office).
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hate to tell you but the Albigenses were not believers and certainly not baptist.
     
  8. matt wade

    matt wade
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    76
    Of course that makes it perfectly acceptable to exterminate them.
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    THIS ought to open your eyes about the RCC. It's worth the time to watch all of it.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    And why should I accept your Catholic revisionist historian???

    http://www.watch-unto-prayer.org/TR-13-albigenses-cathari.html


    Though you may not like the original source, he has far more historical references than your biased Catholic.
     
  11. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    These incidents occurred because at that time the Church had authority over the civil government. Like Sharia Law. Like Christian Reconstructionists want to impose on the entire world.
     
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Yet the RCC believes these people speak for God!
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not at all. However, it doesn't make them believers either. And for the record it wasn't the "church" that wiped them out but local governments. The church only provided due process.
     
  14. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    For two obvious reason. The historian lived at the time of the events and two your baptist revisionist are trying to prove a non tennable position that baptist were the primative church.
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,183
    Likes Received:
    207
    This is an issue that can never be settled between Catholic and non-Catholic historians simply because all uninspired human history is subject to bias, distortion and interpretation. Rome is going to vouch for its sources while non-Roman historians are going to point out factors that cast doubt on those sources and statements.

    However, that is precisely why I choose to view secular church history from the perspective of inspired prophetic scriptures. God's word is inspired (2 Tim. 3:16). The writers are not biased (1 Pet. 1:20-21).

    1. False religion is clearly predicted to rise - 1 Tim. 4:1-5; Mt. 24:24-25; etc.

    2. False religion is clearly characterized:

    a. False religion persecutes, slanders, murders other professed Christians - Jn. 16;1-4; Mt. 5:10-13; Rev. 17:5.

    b. False religion is characterized by prominent false doctrines - Gal. 1:8-9; 1 Tim. 4:1-5; 1 Jn. 4:1-6;

    3. True Biblical religion is in the minority and decreasing as the age ends

    a. "little flock"
    b. "hid" among the tares - Mt. 13
    c. "few be that find it" - Mt. 7:13-14
    d. "Shall I find faith" - Lk. 18:8

    Rome along with many others fits every single characteristic of false religion. And if Rome fits every single characteristic of false religion then the "few" and "the little flock" must be among whom they persecuted and killed throughout the centuries - Just that simple!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,080
    Likes Received:
    48
    actually Higher authority then the bible, as he can made pronouncements as concerning perpetual virginity of mary, her assumption etc NON of that found un the sacred texts!
     
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Sounds a little like the RCC priesthood doesn't it!
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    It is exceedingly difficult to form any very precise idea of the Albigensian doctrines because present knowledge of them is derived from their opponents and from the very rare and uninformative Albigensian texts which have come down to us. What is certain is that, above all, they formed an antisacerdotal party in permanent opposition to the Roman church and raised a continued protest against the corruption of the clergy of their time. The Albigensian theologians and ascetics, known in the south of France as bons hommes or bons chrétiens, were always few in number.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/12965/Albigenses
     
  19. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pour argument. We can tell what the beliefs were from the Trojans who's only written history is from their advisaries the greeks. We Know alot about the carthaginians though most of their history is derived from their enemies the Romans. In fact we understand some things about the hebrew people from their advesaries writings the egyptians. We know alot about the philistines through their enemy the Jews and the bible. We can tell accurately about the early church from their advisaries the Roman government. So quite incorrectly we can tell a lot from the writings of peoples advesaries. And the Albigenisans did have some sacraments in their belief system as people of the time are able to tell in their writings.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    You are entitled to your opinion, but where are your sources?
     

Share This Page

Loading...