Another Degree Mill

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. Martin

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    Over the years I have seen a number of degree mills. Many of them come and go probably having little impact. However one degree mill that seems to have staying power is Christian Bible College based in Rocky Mount, North Carolina. This degree mill offers all sorts of degrees. From an Associates in Theology, to a Bachelors degree in Counseling, Education, and Theology, to graduate degrees including the MA and MDiv.

    This obvious degree mill offers ThDs and PhDs in a variety of subjects including Theology, Education, and Religion. I find it hard to believe that CBC has the faculty, staff, and resources to offer PhDs much less such a wide variety of ThDs and PhDs.

    Christian Bible College allows "students" to "earn" degrees through life credit and by writing a thesis (no course work). Otherwise students do a minimal amount of reading and writing to earn a degree.

    The tuition is very high for an online only "school". It could cost a student over $2,000 to read a few books, write a few papers, and get a degree from this diploma mill. Of course $2,000 is cheap for a PhD, but it is very expensive considering that CBC is really not offering its "students" any services beyond mailing them work/text books and diplomas.

    The school boasts "many famous graduates". In looking through their list I only notice one famous graduate, Jack Van Impe. Mr. Impe is certainly not a credible source of information for any serious student.

    As for accreditation, hold on to your seats for this one, CBC is accredited by AAATI or the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions. Of course this is not a real accrediting body and it is certainly not approved by the Dept. of Education. The President of CBC, Mr. Cecil Johnson also runs AAATI. That should raise more than a few eyebrows. I suppose he just accredited his own school.

    I can't understand why any serious Christian would even want to be associated with such a sham. However the very fact that it has been around as long as it has proves that some do. I suppose they are not all that serious about their education.
     
  2. Rippon

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    Martin,I went to your blog.Is there a way to view without the music?
     
  3. Martin

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    ==There sure is, scroll down and find the player on the right side of the blog (below My Favorite Websites) and hit the pause/stop button.
     
  4. Jim1999

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    My friends, years ago a degree meant something. It was generally obtained because one had ambitions to teach. A pastor was content to graduate from a Bible College with a diploma and get into the work; pastor a church or missions. It worked well, and these people advanced themselves in book and application. We did not seek to impress anyone with letters behind our names. The odd DD would serve.

    Soon churches demanded degrees. My pastor has more degrees than your pastor. I am not sure it had anything to do with learning. Certainly for some, but not for all.

    To-day, one cannot pastor a church of 25 members without at least a ThD. You will also notice that these degrees are broadly advertised as well.

    Pehaps if we went back to the simple men of old along with the book of old and the gospel of old we might again experience the Holy Spirit of old enacting in all our hearts and lives anew and burst out in triumph in our society.

    I polish my shoes, press my suit and trousers, comb my hair, but I can't begin to touch the work accomplished by the late A.W. Tozer who spent the night before preaching on his knees in prayer. He came out in wrinkled suit and hair out of place but oh what power in what he preached.

    Give me those olden times, Lord. Rattle my soul, not by degree in man's hands, but in totality by your Holy Spirit.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. Rippon

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    Jim,Tozer pastored in Toronto for the last few years of his life.Were you ever privileged to hear him?
     
  6. TCGreek

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    Christians need to value excellence in their theological education, not just secular.

    That's part of the issue, I believe.
     
  7. Jim1999

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    Rippon, I was privileged to attend his wife when he was discovered dead, on his knees, in his study.

    Yes, I knew him quite well. He was pastor at he Avenue Road Christian and Missionary Alliance Church and often spoke at the annual Keswick Conference at keswick, Ontario.

    Everyone in Ontario respected Tozer, if I may suggest as Spurgeon was admired in London, England.

    He was not a fancy orator, nor a geat pulpiteer, but once he spoke, we listened.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Rippon

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    WOW! T.T.Shields,now A.W.Tozer.Are there any other well-known men of God from the past that you knew?How about the other A.W. -- Arthur Pink?

    Whe did Mrs.Tozer pass away?Do you know the children?
     
  9. Jim1999

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    Rippon,

    I didn't keep in touch with the Tozers after Tozer (you know that is what he wanted to be called,,just Tozer) after he died in 1963. I was pastor at Gibbons St Baptist in Oshawa at the time and I was heading out to Saskatchewan.

    Mrs. Tozer went back to Ohio with the some of the 7 children they had. He was buried in Akron, Ohio, the place where he once worked making tyres with Good Year.

    Obviously, TT. Sheilds. He was president of the seminary, but he died in 1955. Then Dr. Harold Slade took over from him.

    No, I never knew Pink, just about him. I did know Douglas Percy, a well known missionary and writer and another great influence on my life an interest in missions. In 1955, I picked up Billy Graham at the Toronto airport...does that count? Also I do know George Beverly Shea who comes from Winchester, just a few miles from where I live now.

    Oh man, you are causing me to remember the old days and a few tears are rolling. Enough name dropping before I start mentioning some of the liberals I know....:praying:

    Cheers,

    Jim

    PS. You did know that Tozer was not that old when he died. He was only 66.
     
  10. Tom Butler

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    One day years ago, I had occasion to be in my pastor's study, when I noticed something I had never seen before. On his wall, a diploma testifying to an earned doctorate! I was shocked. He'd never mentioned it before, and as far as I know, never mentioned it the entire time he was our pastor.

    Two other pastors earned their D.Min degrees while at our church. Both were intellectually gifted, both gifted pulpit preachers. Both indicated that they didn't do it to help them be better preachers or teachers. They did it to help them be better pastors.

    Regarding the OP, I chair the trustees at Mid-Continent University, a Baptist school in Mayfield, Kentucky. It is our intention to go to Masters' level, but the process is not easy. You have to have a required number of Ph.Ds already in place when you apply to SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools). And they can't be just any kind of Ph.D Try competing in the market for Baptist Ph.Ds without competitive (reeeeeallly competitive) salaries Many hoops to jump through, and quite expensive.

    Real graduate programs cannot be done on the cheap, nor obtained on the cheap.
     
  11. Rippon

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    A.W. Pink was also 66 at death -- just a few months older than Tozer at death.

    You have a lot of good memories Jim.It's a delight for me to hear them related.
     
  12. Jim1999

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    Rippon, Are you familiar with the Keswick Movement in both England an Canada? It is a holiness camp, but put aside the negatives and think of the positives. Well, I attended them as often as I could. There one met with such preachers as G. Campbell Morgan, J. Sidlow Baxter, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Oswald J. Smith and other great preachers and men of God...I didn't like their eschatology, but at such a place we placed our emphasis on living in Christ and the Holy Spirit's power over and in us. Still, nice to have tea with them.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. TCGreek

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    I'm all for academic excellence, but sometimes I wonder about the money and the issue of which school someone went to.

    Some of it is all about competition.

    I had a firsthand experience with a popular pastor and author. We had a conversation, and it all changed when he realized that I didn't go to a BIG school like he went to.

    We both earned accredited degrees. For that reason, I really don't mention where I went to school.
     
  14. Jim1999

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    Tom and DCGreek,,,a degree is not to be advertised or bragged about, but rather to be demonstrated as you preach and explain the word to the common person who attends your ministry.

    I said to a student one time, who had to interrupt the class to demonstrate his great knowledge: "You may very well be right, but remember, I mark your papers." He never interrupted classes again.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. TCGreek

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    Thanks for the counsel, Jim.
     
  16. Martin

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    ==Personally I don't worry about "what" school a person attended. All I want to know is that the person attended a real school. Christian education should not be a competition or a keeping up with the Joneses. As long as the education is quality, that is comes from a real school, it is fine with me.

    ==That is sad, but some people lose track of what really matters.

    The purpose of these posts I am doing on degree mills, and there are probably more to come, is not to set some schools above others but to expose fake schools.
     
  17. StefanM

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    Precisely. If one is going to pursue a degree, it should be a legitimate degree (accredited or not, but most quality schools will be accredited).

    Personally, though, I don't care whether an individual has a degree or not. I care about the education. One can acquire through apprenticeship and personal study the equivalent of a formal education. It isn't easy, but I don't find any verse in scripture requiring a piece of paper.
     
  18. Martin

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    I just noticed some things about the application for entrance into CBC that provides more verification that CBC is indeed a degree mill. Check out the form here to verify what I am saying. Notice the following:

    1. The form never asks for references. This is unusual since all graduate/doctoral level programs, secular or religious, ask for professional references.

    2. The form never asks for academic transcripts. This is unheard of among real schools. While the form asks what degree(s) the student holds, it asks for no official verification of degrees. So a person who holds no degrees could lie and gain entrance into a graduate/doctoral level program.

    3. The form never asks for church information. No request for pastoral reference, church verification, church endorsment, anything. How can the school be sure that it is accepting christian students who are ready for graduate/doctoral level work in theology (etc) without that information? It can't.

    4. The form, which is the registration form, asks what name the student would like to have on their degree. Having earned two graduate degrees I know that this is a question that appears on graduation applications and not registration forms. Very odd that this school assumes everyone who enrolls will graduate.

    Stay clear of CBC and if you ever hear of anyone thinking about enrolling at CBC warn them that they are about to throw their money and time down the drain.
     
    #18 Martin, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2008
  19. TCGreek

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    Martin, I add to your warning.
     
  20. Rippon

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    If you're going to add, then give some additional info_Otherwise you're just giving an echo.

    ( Just kidding.I'm giving you a hard time TCG)
     

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