Another Failure of Republican Deregulation

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JustChristian, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. JustChristian

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    Funds blame US regulators for Madoff debacle
    By James Mackintosh and Kiran Stacey in London
    December 18 2008 23:30
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5df0156a-cd35-11dd-9905-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

    Hedge funds and investors who lost money in the alleged $50bn Madoff scam have begun defending their decision to invest with Bernard Madoff, in some cases trying to shift the blame to US regulators.

    Union Bancaire Privée, the Swiss bank that is one of the world’s biggest hedge fund investors, told clients in a letter this week that it had spotted potential dangers but had been reassured by Mr Madoff’s reputation and clean regulatory record.

    Other investors – while expressing shock at what could be the biggest ever financial fraud – said they were angry at the failure of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the US markets watchdog, to spot the fraud.

    “The American authorities must bear a great deal of blame for this,” said Ken Thornber, leader of the UK’s Hampshire County Council, whose pension fund lost £7m by investing with a Madoff fund.

    “They missed as obvious a trick as pyramid selling and to do that with people’s savings is unforgivable. We have got a regulatory crisis of global proportions. Where on earth were the American authorities here?”
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    I am not registering to read this story. What deregulation occurred by republicans to allow this?
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

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    That's the question I would ask, Mitch.......
     
  4. LeBuick

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    You know, they got rid of the regulation that was regulating the industry so it would be regulated thereby having a regulated industry. When they did that, it became an unregulated industry due to their deregulation. And the republican's did it... :thumbs:
     
  5. Bro. Curtis

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    Can you point out the regulation they threw out ?
     
  6. LeBuick

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    Yes... :thumbs:
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    OK. Are you going to wait for J/C do post it ?
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    I am not sure they threw out any regulation ... this will take a bit of research. What I believe happened is they simply did not enforce the regulations that were in place, and they ignored warnings of funny things going on in this particular fund. But, it is the same are having no regulation when regulations are not enforced.

    Should be an interesting topic to research and here is a bit of what I have found since writing the sentences above:

    So the first tip came sometime in 1999, a campaign year and a year when outgoing politically appointed bureaucrats were looking for jobs.

     
    #8 Crabtownboy, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2008
  9. windcatcher

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    Actually the campaign year was 2000 and Bush came to office in January 2001 after election disputes and amid a somewhat uncooperative transition. (I'm not blaming Pres Clinton for this.... but reports were fiercely circulated regarding the attitudes and behavior of staff.)

    The Madoff scam:
    FROM HERE and
    FROM HERE

    This was a scheme long in the making. Somewhere I heard reported that there were questions in the early 90's. Whatever the truth is regarding when this scam finally broke and who was suspicious, it seems so far that until his own sons reported their suspicions, the only other substantial report came from a person, Markopolos, who was in a competing firm. Many of these governmental regulatory agencies only do a cursory and superficial examination on well established institutions as their manpower is involved in repeated reviews and mentoring new businesses into conforming with their policies: There is an assumption that any problems which may arise are being found and corrected 'in house' through the normal structures of good accounting and auditing procedures and review and updates of company policies to keep them in compliance with current law are taking place. The most effective and legitimate complaint which initiates investigation is a customer who has been defrauded: Until then, its a sad situation, but established business find themselves kind of protected by the enormous and time consuming job which the people in these government agencies have to perform. This is not to excuse the SEC etc from their inadequate oversight to insure that schedule reviews took place and that certified audits were presented at these reviews..... which was not done in this case.

    It is a bit extreme to put a political swing or 'blame the President' to this...... but some can't see deeper than their own bias and while pretense at peace and unity, prefer to interject politics as a way of adding incitement into problems and solutions which are not partisan at all.
     
    #9 windcatcher, Dec 19, 2008
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  10. JustChristian

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    Harry Truman said that the "Buck stops here" and owned any problems that arose during his watch. There's been a remarkable lack of the President owning problems for the last 8 years. This quote from your source shows that the SEC under Bush found violations of security laws in 2005 and in 2007 (Why the 2 year delay?) SEC enforcement staff completed an investigation and did not refer the matter to the SEC commissioners for legal action. Who's responsible if not the administration?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ibid

    The SEC said it conducted two inquiries of Madoff in the last several years and did not find major problems.[48] An SEC statement detailed that inspectors examined Madoff's brokerage operation in 2005, finding three violations of rules requiring brokers to obtain the best possible price for customer orders, while in 2007, SEC enforcement staff completed an investigation and did not refer the matter to the SEC commissioners for legal action.[49]
     
  11. targus

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    So what's the Republican deregulation?
     
  12. carpro

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    :laugh: so it's Bush's fault again. :laugh:

    I guess it's also Bush's fault I just paid $1.29 per gallon for unleaded.:rolleyes:
     
  13. carpro

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    There's not one.

    Madoff has been running his Ponzi scheme for decades.
     
    #13 carpro, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2008
  14. JustChristian

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    Not on topic.
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    Well, since yer not going to back up yer own thread, we figured we'd talk amongst ourselves. Hard to demand to stay on topic when you won't participate.
     
  16. rbell

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    Maybe people should ask what kind of idiot would put their entire savings/nest egg/portfolio in a fund that is pulling numbers that are divorced from reality?

    A Ponzi Scheme is not a new thing. And except for Social Security (the only legal Ponzi scheme), people should follow the adage, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is." Ponzi schemes will always exist, no matter the regulations--because greed exists, no matter the regulations.

    You can't regulate stupidity or greed out of existence.

    Of course, I forget: George Bush is personally responsible for the existence, actions, and reprocussions of every single criminal in the US and overseas.

    J/C, will you give the next president the same "respect?" :rolleyes:
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    So what deregulation lead to this (specifically) and who did it?
     
  18. carpro

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    People are asking you on topic questions and you're ignoring them.

    The fact you took the time to respond to an off topic post means you have seen the questions.

    You are being intellectually dishonest in not participating in your own thread about your chosen subject.

    You could just admit you made an unsubstabtiated allegation and let it go at that.

    How 'bout it? :wavey:
     
  19. carpro

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/17/business/17madoff.html?_r=1&hp

    S.E.C. Says It Missed Signals on Madoff Fraud Case


    By ALEX BERENSON and DIANA B. HENRIQUES
    Published: December 16, 2008

    The Securities and Exchange Commission said Tuesday night that it had missed repeated opportunities to discover what may be the largest financial fraud in history, a Ponzi scheme whose losses could run as high as $50 billion.

    The commission said it received credible allegations about the scheme at least nine years ago and will immediately open an internal investigation to examine why it had failed to pursue them aggressively.

    ______________________________________

    Guess who was president then...
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    Part of one year, perhaps a whole year for Clinton and eight for Bush. Hmmm 8 to 1. But this scheme had been going on a longtime. Of course the last 8 years was one of constantly pushing for deregulation.

    I really feel sorry for all the people who have lost money in this scam. Really a shame.

    Seems I read or heard somehere that the current SEC felt it was the little guys they had to watch and the big guys, like Madoff, must be honest and not need careful watching. Can't find it now ... maybe I heard it on CNN International.
     
    #20 Crabtownboy, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2008

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