Another Masonic Question and Aleister Crowley

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ps104_33, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    My older son, who is in his thirties, has recently joined the Masonic Lodge. Now I recently discovered that he has been reading the writings of Aleister Crowley. Is there a connection here? I researched a little and found out that he was A member of OTO. (Ordo Templi Orientis) Has this society anythihg to do with the Masons? This has my wife and I very concerned because he is getting my 16 year old son interested in this. Any thoughts?
     
  2. Barry and Helen Setterfield

    Barry and Helen Setterfield
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    Hi! Its Barry here. I was just quickly reviewing topics and came across yours. I do have some important information to share.

    Aleister Crowley was an individual who was associated with several organizations and formed a link between them. He was an occultist who was involved with Freemasonry at the highest levels. He died as a result of challenging his personal spirit guide (demon) to a duel to prove that he could control him. This should raise some alarm bells.

    Crowley also had connections with Albert Pike who was Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry and so guided the organization at that time. A well-researched book was written by L. Queenborough that documented all the interlocking organizations, as well as letters of key individuals within them. It was entitled "Occult Theocrasy". I have a copy back in Australia (I am in California at the moment), but remember there was a deal of information about Crowley in there. In fact the inside covers bore a copy of his certificate as a 33rd degree Mason.

    I remember one quote from this book fairly well. This quote is from a directive by Albert Pike to the Freemasonry organization. As closely as I can recall it reads after this fashion. "What we must say to the crowd is that we worship God, but it is a god we worship without superstition... But to you Sovereigns of Universal Freemasonry we say, that you might repeat it to the bretheren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees, that the Masonic Religion should, by all of us initiates of the highest degrees, be maintained in the purity of the Lucerferian doctrine... Yes, Lucifer is God. Unfortunately, Adonai, the God of the Christians , is also God, for there is no light without darkness, no good without evil. But Lucifer, God of light and God of good, is fighting against Adonai, the God of darkness and evil..."

    I think this should give you a feel for where your older son is heading.

    Helen here now: In reference to your older son influencing your younger son, your older son should be refused admission to your home. I know that sounds horrid, but keep those boys apart and start doing a family Bible study NOW.

    Mention to your younger son that all the religions in the world recognize something is wrong with man but only Christianity does not force man to try to redeem himself through whatever means. The burden your older son has placed upon himself in his quest for power is like trying to control a hand-held atom bomb. It will explode. It will destroy him. Pray for your older son and have some long and serious talks with your younger son, praying for him as well.

    Our prayer is that your older son will hit bottom without having to pay for it with his life, and that, at that point, he will realize the deadly danger he is now involving himself with and turn to the real God -- the God of the Bible, our Savior and Redeemer.
     
  3. Baptist in Richmond

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    Greetings to you from a recently departed Tampa resident. I am familiar with the Godly people at Landmark Baptist Church.

    I have a deep love and respect for my brother and sister in Christ (Barry and Helen), and they have given some good information on Aleister Crowley, once regarded as "the wickedest man in the world." If you ever see a copy of rock group Led Zeppelin's untitled album (usually referred to as IV), that is Aleister Crowley on the front cover. Band member Jimmy Page used to own the largest occult bookstore in London, and actually lives in Crowley's old house (at least he did at one time). Aleister Crowley is also on the cover of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band by The Beatles (one of the back rows). Then of course there is the song "Mr. Crowley" by Ozzy Osbourne. I have heard that one of the members in a duet that was HUGE in the 80's is a follower of Crowley, but I don't want to identify him as I am not sure that it's true.

    When I was in college, I read Diary of a Drug Fiend, which is about the extent of my direct exposure to Crowley. I have heard that libraries have difficulty keeping his books on the shelves, as they are quite often stolen. I would urge your son to research who Aleister Crowley really was, and to be VERY CAREFUL, especially if your son is not a Believer.

    I had always heard that Crowley broke with the Masons and founded the OTO. BTW, the OTO has a local "chapter" in Tampa. Do you suspect that your son is affiliating with them?

    I will pray for him (and for you and your wife) every night.
     
  4. Marcia

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    You do not say if your older son is a believer or not, or if he professes to be one but you don't think he is, or you are not sure.

    I am somewhat familiar with A. Crowley. He enjoyed a reputation of being evil and called himself the "Beast." It's important, however, to know he was not a Satanist but rather a ceremonial magician and occultist (these are not good things, either). He was also involved in sexual magick (he used a "k" for magic) which involved depraved sexual acts, and involved in drugs. (Ironically, or maybe not, he was brought up in a Christian home -- I think it was like a Plymouth Brethren home but not sure).

    Crowley influenced two men who have influenced our society and age through two anti-Christian religions: The Church of Scientology and Wicca. Both L. Ron Hubbard, who started the Church of Scientology, and Gerald Gardner, who started Wicca (modern witchcraft religion), knew Crowley. Gardner belonged to Crowley's organization at one point. This influence should give you and your son an idea of the evil of Crowley's beliefs.

    Crowley had a spirit guide named Aiwass who, according to Crowley, gave him (Crowley) the Thelemic Law: "Do what you will shall be the whole of the law." The essence of this is that one exerts one's will over the natural world in order to bring about what one desires. Crowley threw religion into it, but it's a perversion of belief about God. Gardner took this Thelemic Law, softened it a bit, and made it the Wiccan Rede: "Harm none, and do what thou wilt."

    If your son is a believer or claims to be one (even if he isn't but especially if he is), you need to try to make these points:
    1. Ask him if he knows what Crowley believed
    2. Ask him why he is reading Crowley
    3. Tell him about Crowley's influence on Hubbard and Gardner
    4. Tell him Crowley was involved in contact with demons
    5. Tell him Crowley descended into depraved sexual activities and was a drug addict
    6. Tell him Crowley's beliefs and practices are the foundation of a whole range of occult practices today that involve contact with demons, drugs, and attempts to exert one's will over the natural world.

    It is really dangerous to get involved in Crowley's thinking or worldview. Try to sit down calmly with your son and make these points. You need to present these facts to him. If these do not bother him, then there is already something else at work that has made an inroad in him, or else his curiosity or desire for power is blocking his morality. He needs your input and prayer.
     
  5. frewtloop

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    Sounds like he had a super-sized chip on his shoulder.

    TW
     
  6. Jacob Webber

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    Aleister Crowley appeared to be a member of what is called a clandestain Lodge of Masons one that is not accepted by the Grnad Lodges. Unless your son belonged to one of these lodges post below than most likely it is not acceppted by Freemasonry:

    This is a list of Lodges in FL
    http://www.glflamason.org/WEBPAGES.HTM#fllodges
     
  7. O.F.F.

    O.F.F.
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    Worm,

    Stop posting or else you will be exposed for the fraud that you are. Personally, I will not allow the members of this board to continue to be deceived by someone claiming to be someone he is not.

    O.F.F.
     
  8. Ben W

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    Dear O.F.F,

    I suggest that if you have a problem with another poster, that you refer back to the moderator of the board. It is not up to you to suggest who may and may not post on the BB. The Baptist Boards are a board where people may post by privilige not by a right. By acting in the manner that you are, all you are doing is showing people that your attitude is poor. Which is a poor witness in itself. Again, take it to the webmaster. He ultimatley decides who may and may not post.
     
  9. O.F.F.

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    Ben,

    I appreciate your comments, and trust me, the moderators of this board are aware of the situation and the evidence that supports it, to include the webmaster.

    If my attitude toward protecting the saints of this forum from deception may be misconstrued as a poor witness then I will deal with such repercussions accordingly. Meanwhile, as long as I am granted the privilege of being a member of this forum I will not allow its integrity to be tarnished by the toleration of a deceiver.

    Respectfully,
    Mike
     
  10. frewtloop

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    My biggest questions in the whole matter would be:

    1. How does anything I have to say on any subject on any thread here constitute "deception" if I have not intentionally misrepresented anything I have to say on the subject? I feel I have provided sufficient attribution, as would be expected in any debate.

    2. How is your accusation of misrepresentation of who I am applicable on a board that does not require personal information as a part of its registration process? After all, I never represented anything about myself in any large degree at all until pressured, as I am not the topic.

    3. How does an accusation of gender misrepresentation have any relevance on a board which does not require gender information as a part of its process? I went back and looked after your accusations, and such a question is simply not there.

    4. Why should I not view your attacks as a last-resort strategy on your part, since it seems that both times you have chosen that course of action against me here, you have succeeded in getting threads closed down?

    5. Do you have no response to what was posted on the topic?

    The Worm
     
  11. O.F.F.

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    "The Worm" asked:

    You know perfectly well that its not what you've said on any topic on this board that constitutes deception, it is your ongoing attempt to impersonate a woman, when we now know you are a man. You have no reason to lie about your sex.

    You can avoid the real issue as much as you'd like. The fact remains, that because of your familiar writing style, inquires were made that ultimately substantiate the fact that you LIED when registering for this forum.

    The evidence concludes that you are not only male, rather than female, you are not a Baptist, but a United Methodist pastor from South Carolina. You are not a female Masonic enthusiast, but rather a relatively new Mason who was initiated on April 4, 2004.

    As a former Mason, I can assure everyone here that such behavior is considered unMasonic conduct. Yet for a Christian pastor it is incredulous. In either case it is absolutely unacceptable.

    We would have never known you were going to claim to be a woman until you attempted to use that to further your charade in order to deceive members of this board.

    Again, the fact that it has been determined who you actually are proves your deceptive motives from the moment you registered. Since as you say, the board has no gender requirement in the registration process, why would you feel you had to misrepresent your sex? If your gender is irrelevant you shouldn't have a problem being the man that you truly are, unless you truly do have something to hide. If fact, after revisiting your makeshift website, I see you removed your "female" picture. Hummm, I wonder why?

    Again, you can try to distract from the real issue, which is the deliberate lying and deception to the Body of Christ here at the Baptistboard by a man of the cloth, or you can be a true saint and offer a confession, repent of this sin and be forgiven.

    You know perfectly well I can personally relate to this very sin. You now have a perfect opportunity to demonstrate a true model of repentance, even as I did a year ago.

    Yet, to suggest that this is some sort of last-resort tactic on my part only furthers your deceit and deliberate rebellion against God.

    In my personal view, until you come clean on this matter, you do not even deserve the privilege of board membership, let alone a response to what you post on it. Why should anyone want to continue to dialog with a liar.

    It's time for you to end this properly, and with dignity, so that we can return to the discussions at hand and maintain the integrity of this board. Although you have not extended me the same courtesy, you have my word, if you resolve this in an appropriate Christian way, and in a timely manner, I will not bring this up ever again.

    I truly believe that once sin is confessed, and sincerely repented of, it is forgiven and should be forgotten. If God, through Christ, has done that for us, the least we can do is the same for each other.

    Sincerely,
    Mike

    [ June 13, 2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
  12. frewtloop

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    You're right, I don't, I am not the one doing the lying.

    Then I suggest you produce said substantiation instead of doing the Saul thing, "breathing out threats and slaughter." The fact is, you have nothing, because you know nothing, and even what you think you know is off-base.

    Entirely untrue. Corroboration can be provided in a heartbeat if the information I provided to the moderators by PM were simply checked out. The information in question is, my homechurch name, my name, the phone number of the wife of the pastor who conducted my wedding (he has since died), and the name and phone number of a neighbor I used to ride to church with when mama couldn't go. I have assured them that I would not consider it an intrusion to make phone calls and verify this information. I have only asked them to respect my privacy for extremely obvious reasons.

    Easy--I didn't.

     
  13. O.F.F.

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    "Worm",

    The bottomline is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for two totally different people to have the same writing style and have two totally different Internet providers to have the same IP address, that are tracked to the same geographic location of South Carolina. You obviously have lied about your provider because the IP address is the same. You are operating from the same computer, PERIOD.

    You can continue to THINK you are fooling everyone here to include the moderators and administrators of this forum, but we ALL know that you are lying, and the truth isn't in you!

    So pastor, you can lie about this until the Lord returns, the truth is known and you have to live with yourself and your deceit. My only advise, to the members of this forum, is that if you are allowed to remain on this board, you should be entirely ignored.

    As for the link you provided of misinformation concerning me, let me inform the viewers of this thread that it comes from a pro-masonic website that propagates lies against anyone famous for thier anti-masonic views. Should anyone want to know the accurate story behind what is posted there against me, please feel free to contact me via PM for the details.

    In the meantime, you now know the deceitfulness of "The Worm."

    [ June 13, 2004, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
  14. frewtloop

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    First of all, I don't recall saying anything to you about my provider at all, which makes it rather strange as you have now accused me of lying in a comment I haven't even made. Second, I don't pretend to have any knowledge about such things, but what you call impossible is far from it. You should know, after all, you have at least four distinct URL's on another forum, three of which are identically shared with another member of the forum who supposedly posts from Florida, while your own point of origin is listed as Pennsylvania. And I'm told that with routers, just about anything can be made to appear if one so desires. Not that I'd use such a thing or know anything about them, of course.

    So, I assume it must be standard practice then, to accuse everyone who says anything you don't like, of being liars?

    Now there's a real twist for you. Try to spread your own accusations at me in public, and then deal with your own in private? What's wrong with this picture?

    All I can say to that is to quote your own words to me, per your post to me in the recently closed thread on June 3:

    Like I've already said, you already indicated by PM you knew who I was, I gave you no argument over it, you were accepting of the situation, and posted again on the boards for several days afterward. Why do you now ignore what was already settled privately and continue to pursue this nonsense?

    The Worm
     
  15. O.F.F.

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    "Worm" said:

    This is precisely how the person you are now confirmed to be has responded to allegations of his previous attempts to deceive under the names "Jermaine" & "Frankie." The fact is, you indicated in your profile here via your email address that your provider is "netscape.net." However, you actually use the same provider as the person to whom you have been identified, which is hotmail.com.

    By the way, since I have exchanged emails with you under your real name, from your real provider, I was able to confirm yet again your IP address via the header. The result is that it is the same as the "Worm's." You are right, you don't do a good job pretending to know about such things, as you are proving to be as unsuccessful as you are in pretending to be someone you're not.

    I too am not a webmaster, but I have confirmed the following to be true by those who are experts in this matter:

    When you say that you have noticed the same IP from me and another person on another forum, it is because we both, at that time, had AOL as our provider. And, even then it didn't subsequently remain permanent because they are dynamic. As the experts indicated above, the chance of this occurring is "incredibly small," so the chance of it ever happening again is equally remote.

    However, in your case yours in not dynamic, it is static. Or else it may be dynamic, but one thing is certain, the first unit of numbers have always been the same. This is why we've been able to track your IP address everywhere you visit online to defend the Masonic Faith (thelodgeroom.com, "Ministry of Masons" where you are a moderator, my discussion board at "Ex-Masons for Jesus," and christianforums.com). Like I said before, we've even tracked your IP address to your residing state of South Carolina.
    I suppose this is an admission of guilt.

    The point is, we are 99% sure that you are who I've suspected you to be all along. If as a pastor, who also wears a Masonic Apron, you are too ashamed to properly represent yourself here, you most certainly should now be ashamed of being discovered as a fraud.

    [ June 14, 2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
  16. frewtloop

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    Don't know about your information, or where you got it from, you obviously don't know as much about this either as you claim to know. And I can play that "quote from a website that backs you up" game as well as you. I took the liberty of highlighting the portions that may be of interest to you, since you obviously wish to continue playing games:

    Ever been spoofed, Mr. O.F.F.? Hotmail has never been my provider, you are a liar on at least that point. There is absolutely no way you could have ever at any time tracked anything that shows hotmail as my provider.

    So you say, but this was not the isolated incident you claim it to be. This was something observed on a consistent, regular, day by day, week by week basis, and the numbers were exactly the same. And I have a cousin in Florida who has AOL, I checked with hers, the numbers were completely different. So something is obviously going on here that you are anxious to conceal with more clouds and tenuous claims.

    That is nothing but an absolute lie, I have never sent you the first email, I refused to do so from the first suggestion you made that I do so. You are either very confused, or you are a terrible liar. But just so you can see that Hotmail is not my provider, I have sent you one now, with the picture of me that you whined about losing access to, attached with it. Get over your self-absorption and paranoid suppositions, and recognize that things are not always what you want to believe they are, as has been obvious from the scant few times when you have managed to address the topic of the thread.

    No, it's an admission of prior contact with you, and prior resolution as well. It was settled once, now it's not, you are obviously not someone who puts any value on being a man of your word.

    As I am of who you are, a railing accuser with nothing better to do than try to point fingers at everybody else while slipping around doing the same things you accuse others of doing. In my Bible there's a name for it, and Jesus used it pretty directly against the Pharisees many times.

    Have a nice day.
     
  17. Jacob Webber

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    As a former BellSouth DSL Technical Support Specialist also Dialup. It is possible for two people or more to have the same IP. When one disconnects the next one to connect grabs the avialible IP. As far as Bell South the IP's were being released to were the user had to disconnect about every 8 days I believe. If you had what is called a Bridge Connection you kept the same IP all of the time it ran of the MAC address of the NIC. If you could afford it you could get a Static IP. I believe the average calls were around 5000 (This is based on only a 100 people working most likely there was 300 or more so it could up to 15000 it was normal to receive up to 70 tech support calls a day) a day for one call center and yes alot were from South Carolina most were from FL or GA and this was just in one call center in East TN.

    Regardless if Bell South is TW's ISP the possiblity of two people coming off of one Central Office. Which cucles IP's ever 8 days or less by now the possiblity is high for two people to have the same IP. Never the less if they are running off a router and if it is the same IP you say a man uses who is to say this person does not have a wife or girlfriend.

    But regardless of all of this it has nothing to do with the Topic of the person who started the thread. I am not a Mod but it would be nice to at lest stay some where close to the Topic.
     
  18. Baptist in Richmond

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    <blowing whistle>
    Time out!!

    Ps104_33 has a very serious issue here, and is undoubtedly very distraught. Perhaps we could discuss the issue at hand?

    Marcia, I read your profile, and would like to draw upon your knowledge/expertise.
    Are there facets of Mr. Crowley in our culture of which we are unaware?
    How about the OTO?

    BTW, I am about two hours to the South of you, and regret that I cannot make it up to hear you this month. Perhaps I can make it later in the year.

    Ps104_33, you and your sons are in my prayers.

    Regards,

    BiR
     
  19. Marcia

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    Yes, Mr. Crowley has enjoyed a revision of popularity in the past few years. His motto, "Do what thout wilt shall be the whole of the law" has been adopted by many contemporary Satanic groups. Although Crowley was not a Satanist, his philosophy appeals to them. Let me also point out that contemporary Satanists for the most part do not believe in Satan, nor in God. Satan is to them a symbol of serving self, or making self your god. This was the teaching of Anton La Vey who influenced these groups.

    Crowley also influences many young people who do ritual magick. He is quoted by them. If someone is reading Crowley (especially if they are somewhat young), I often assume they are getting into contemporary atheistic satanism or possibly ritual magick or maybe both -- or some form of occult belief/practice.

    The OTO, like the Golden Dawn, spawned other groups, each of which probably claims to be the "true" group but there is no way to tell. These kind of groups are very secretive and there are rumors and such about them so it's hard to know.

    BiR, keep looking at my schedule and hopefully you can come hear me some time!

    I hope this info has helped Ps104_33 who do need our prayers.
     
  20. frewtloop

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    That particular phrase is not as un/anti-christian as it sounds. It appears to be an adaptation of one first formulated by Augustine in the 6th century:

    "Love, and do what thou wilt."

    I daresay they left out the most important part.

    The Worm
     

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