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Another NIV error

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by deacon jd, Oct 10, 2006.

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  1. deacon jd

    deacon jd New Member

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    I do believe that God is 'big enough' to supply a perfect translation of every verse... the Holy Spirit impresses upon me that those perfect verses may not all be in one volume. Why didn't God just make it easy? Perhaps because "narrow is the way..."

    Perhaps is a big word. You didn't even answer your own question, and you sure didn't answer mine. God is not the author of confusion. Do you believe that the same Holy Ghost that leads you to pick out which verse is correct in whichever volume will lead each believer to pick out that same verse out of that same volume? Why do you believe that you need so many versions to understand the Word of God. The narrow way that you are refering to is the way to heaven. Do you believe that only those who pick these correct verses out of the correct versions are going to heaven? I hope not.
     
  2. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    actually I did answer you...in a cryptic fashion, I'm reminding you of what must have been "imperfect" english bibles until 1611...why was it OK to modernize them but not the KJV?
     
  3. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Yes, "perhaps" is a big word... I would not ever presume to know exactly why God chooses to do things the way He does.

    No, clearly I cannot 'pick out' correct verses anymore than others could. I read many good versions and in the process I have faith that I have received God's message, but not necessarily knowing from which one. Often, it is the KJV.

    I don't 'need' many English translations; but I do want at least one (because I cannot read the original languages). What was the need for the AV? There already were English versions (Tyndale, the Geneva Bible, and others). By your own reasoning, the AV also added to your 'confusion'!

    There are actually several good reasons for the continuing translation of the scriptures in English. For example, there are new advances in the understanding of the original languages, new archeological discoveries related to Biblical history, migration of word meanings, translations for different reader skill levels, for reading aloud, etc.

    No, I agree with you that there are many folks that will be saved and go to heaven through the reading of so-called 'modern versions' (like the NIV).
     
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Amen, Bro.! Carrying any version is is not what saved anyone. In fact, I'd offer that when most people are saved, "carrying any Bible" was not very high on their list of priorities at the time, with many deliberately avoiding this, and rather would have been closer to 'nonexistant'. Granted, some did, such as the Ethiopian treasurer that Philip encountered; most did not, such as the Phillipian jailer, and the thief on the cross.

    I'll tack this one on 'for free'. The brilliant, educated, scholar and articulate, convincing, preacher, Apollos, learned from a couple of ordinary laborers who made tents. I'm sure there is a message there for all of us.

    Now, back to our story! I once heard someone say this:

    "The Bible has 'suffered' more at the hands of Its friends, than it has at the hands of Its enemies"

    I agree.

    Ed
     
  5. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    This is why God said to "study"
    If Mr and Ms average would do some studying, instead of being complacent and satisfied with being average, they could understand the deeper things of God...

    It is this brand of willingly ignorance that is destroying the churches. There are sooo many ways to educate yourself about this issue. I have never been to Bible College, or seminary. But I consider myself a scholar none the less, because I want to learn.

    And having The Holy Ghost is no substitute for being lazy.
    That is what it boils down to....laziness.

    People are too lazy to study to show themselves approved. And then condemn others that do.

    If Mr and Ms average Christian would do some simple studying they would understand Scripture better.
     
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Although this is not the exact focus, I believe the words of the late Anglican Bishop J. C. Ryle are somehow appropriate here as to "apparant contradictions" in any version, not just the KJV, as another wrote of Ryle "John (Ryle) took his stand on a belief that the Bible is inspired form over to cover. (Ryle said)
    " As I've said before, and I say again now, Move over J.C. and make room for me as well!

    Ed
     
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Deacon JD: //You didn't even answer your own question, and you sure didn't answer mine. God is not the author of confusion. Do you believe that the same Holy Ghost that leads you to pick out which verse is correct in whichever volume will lead each believer to pick out that same verse out of that same volume?//

    Here is the better meaning for the scriptue you cite:

    1 Corinthians 14:33 (NIV):
    For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
    As in all the congregations of the saints,

    Here is a poor meaning for the scripture you cite:

    1 Corinthians 14:33 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For God is not the authour of confusion,
    but of peace, as in all Churches of the Saints.

    Even the scripture itself contasts disorder/confusion
    with PEACE.
     
  8. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Amen, Brother! Preach it! If carrying any Bible version meant a place in heaven, I'm sure everyone would be carrying one everywhere they went!
     
  9. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    deacon jd, I have looked back through your posts prior to your accusation (#1,14,16) and you didn't use a single a question mark in any of them. It seems the only question you contructed was in #14...

    ...which I specifically did answer...

    And I did answer my own question as well! I don't know if you don't read well, or simply don't comprehend what you read... but the answers are there.
     
  10. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    John 5:31 NIV

    "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid"

    John 8:14 NIV

    Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid,.."

    How would you understand the Word of God in the NIV when 2 passages contradicted each other here? Also many modern versions.
     
    #30 Askjo, Oct 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2006
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Joh 5:31 (KJV1611 Edition):
    If I beare witnesse of my selfe, my witnesse is not true.

    Joh 8:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Iesus answered, and said vnto them,
    Though I beare record of my selfe, yet my record is true:
    for I know whence I came, and whither I goe:
    but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I goe.

    How would you understand the Word of God in the
    KJV1611 Edition when 2 passages contradicted each other here?
     
  12. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Ed, you know you are wrong. The KJV has no contradiction on these passages reflecting to 2 different words: witness and record.
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Joh 5:31 (KJV1769 Edition with Strong's numbers)
    If1437 I1473 bear witness3140 of4012 myself,1683
    my3450 witness3141 is2076 not3756 true.227

    Joh 8:14 (KJV1769 Edition with Strong's numbers)
    Joh 8:14 Jesus2424 answered611 and2532 said2036 unto them,846
    Though2579 I1473 bear record3140 of4012 myself,1683
    yet my3450 record3141 is2076 true:227 for3754
    I know1492 whence4159 I came,2064 and2532 whither4226
    I go;5217 but1161 ye5210 cannot tell1492, 3756 whence4159
    I come,2064 and2532 whither4226 I go.5217


    The Greek, like the NIV uses the same exact word (#3141)
    in both verses.
    Is the Greek wrong like the NIV?
    Does the KJV 'correct' the Greek?
     
  14. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    These KJV translators were very wise to select right words on these passages reflecting to the Greek. The KJV makes very crystal reflecting to the doctrine of Jesus Christ. These passages on the NIV on affect the doctrine of Jesus Christ and contradict with thie Christology.
     
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Let only those who know the meaning of 'if' and some basic
    logic that goes with it -- let them continue this discussion.

    Let those who can read the context -- let them continue this
    discussion.

    Askjo: // These KJV translators were very wise to select right words
    on these passages reflecting to the Greek.//

    Cute to say in this Topic. In this topic:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=33995&page=4

    you would be argued under the floor. For there each WORD must
    be conserved. How can ONE GREEK WORD be conserved
    as TWO ENGLISH WORDS?
     
  16. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Hmm...NIV & KJV1769 agree...

    [/quote]Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going."[/b] John 8:14 NIV[/quote]

    Hmm...NIV & KJV1769 agree again

    Askjo, since the KJV1769 and the NIV agree in these passages, then the supposed "contradiction" is evident in both versions. However, there is no contradiction as you so falsely claim. Did you even bother to read the two contexts and see that they were two entirely separate events? Of course you didn't or you wouldn't have made such a hasty and false accusation (giving you the benefit of the doubt here - the alternative is that you read the contexts and knew you were falsely representing the passages in the NIV). Your supposed NIV "contradiction" is also a KJV "contradiction." Since both versions agree, then if it is a contradiction in one version it is also a contradiction in the other version. By the same token, if it is correct in one version then it is correct in the other version. You can't ride the fence on this one, Askjo. Which is it - right or wrong?
     
    #36 Keith M, Oct 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2006
  17. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    You completely missed the point! (I think you just enjoy telling others that they're 'wrong'.) Ed wasn't trying to bring your attention to these two different words ("witness" and "record"); he was showing that KJV also has "is not true" at John 5:31 and the KJV has "is true" at John 8:14. How do you miss that? The KJV has your same apparent 'contradiction'! Oops.
     
    #37 franklinmonroe, Oct 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2006
  18. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    NIV said that Jesus' testimony is valid (John 8:14) AND not valid (John 5:31). See here how these passages contradicted each other.
     
  19. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Are witness and record same meaning on these passages in the KJV?

    Are testimony and testimony same meaning on these passages in the NIV?
     
  20. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Actually, not so much. The AV translators used previously published Bibles more than the original language manuscripts. The used English Bibles (Bishop's, Geneva, etc), Latin Vulgate, Catholic Rheims, Luther's German, etc.

    There are about 10 places in the KJV NT alone where they inserted the Latin (as there are absolutely no Greek manuscript to attest to their translations in exsistance anywhere).
     
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