Another one of Paul’s hidden conditions for salvation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    2 Thessalonians 1:
    5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God,
    that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
    6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
    7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when
    the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
    8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,
    and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction
    from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
    10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired
    among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
    11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling,
    and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,
    12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him,
    according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


    Everywhere I look …
    I find Paul’s super-tactful hints and warnings re: BACs keeping their salvation!

    v.5 “that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer”

    When Jesus returns on the Day of of the Lord …
    WHO will be punished in flaming fire with vengeance and everlasting destruction?
    (1) – v.8 “those who do not know God” (non-believers)
    (2) – v.8 “those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (unfaithful BACs)

    Re: el groupo (2), what was Paul praying about concerning these BACs?
    v.11 “that our God would count you worthy of this calling”
    v.12 “that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you”

    Nothing ever has anything to do with …
    “You have been saved through grace-faith, and that’s the end of it. Whoopie!”

    With Paul, everything is always conditional upon faithfulness!
    E.G. he wrote Ephesians only to the saints who were faithful.
    E.G. he wrote Colossians only to the saints who were faithful.
    I.E. all of those wonderful promises, etc. were only to the faithful ones.

    .
     
  2. Winman

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    This passage is not saying these believer's salvation is in doubt, you are reading that into the text.

    2 The 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
    4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
    5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    #1 Paul is giving thanks because these believer's faith is growing, and their love toward one another abounds. No questioning salvation here that I see.

    #2 Paul and other Christians glory in the churches of these Thessalonian believers for their patience and faith in persecutions and tribulations. Again, no question of their salvation here.

    #3 Their growing faith and love, their patience in persecutions and tribulations is a token of the righteous judgment of God that they may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God. No question of their salvation here.

    This is proof that they are counted worthy of heaven.

    And verse 8 is describing unbelievers.

    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    This is not describing believers who fell away, it is describing persons who never believed (I NEVER knew you- Matt 7:23), persons that NEVER obeyed (believed) the gospel.

    You are reading into this scripture what is not being said.
     
  3. evangelist-7

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    I consider el groupo (2) as unfaithful BACs simply because ...
    this fits in with the other verses in the OP that tactfully warn the Christians in Thessalonika.

    Not obeying the gospel certainly would necessitate Paul's rebukes in vv. 5, 11, 12.

    However, I do realize that I could be wrong on this one.

    P.S. it's more fun writing like a 10-year-old punkster.

    .
     
    #3 evangelist-7, Dec 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  4. evangelist-7

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    Endless warnings are given to believers throughout the NT.

    But, we have been taught to ignore them.

    We should have been taught to count the cost of being a follower of Christ.

    The parables of Building a tower and The King making war (Luke 14:25-33) gave us fair warning.

    .
     
  5. evangelist-7

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    (2) – v.8 those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (unfaithful BACs)

    My type (2) is not lookin' good ... Oh well, can't win 'em all.

    I messed up because I wasn't sure exactly what "obeying the gospel" meant.

    1 Peter 4:17 "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God;
    and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?"

    Here it definitely means unbelievers.

    .
     
    #5 evangelist-7, Dec 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  6. steaver

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    I really don't understand why you continue to wrest the Scriptures after being shown many times your interpretations cannot be correct.

    Here is your premise which prevents you from properly dividing the Word of Truth........in your mind you have divided the born of God into two separate entities when they are One in Christ. There is no such thing as God's New Creation going to hell, that would make God look pretty darn incompetent, not being able to save His own children. What kinda God is that?

    I'm not a Cal, we have a choice to call on Jesus Christ, but after we make that call it is ALL God who takes over from there performing the miracle of Rebirth, causing the person to become a New Creature, One with Christ. From there begins the Sanctification process which God promises to His children He WILL DO to the end 1Th5:24. God declares the inner man CANNOT continue in sin 1Jo3:9. God declares His children are KEPT by the POWER of GOD 1Pt1:5. These are just but a few of all the explicitly clear promises from God to His children. Really, how many should it take for you to see?

    Please repent and end this war you have waged against God's children and against God's Grace. I have been :praying: for you!
     
  7. steaver

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    And BTW E7, in case nobody ever told you the truth, let me tell you now, you are a habitual sinner each and every day! Welcome aboard the sinners saved by grace club :thumbs:

    Now, go do your best to Love God and Love your fellow man and you will do just fine, this will take care of most of your sins if you obey these two commandments, however, you will need that Grace each and every day my friend. As do I. :praying:
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. evangelist-7

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    Hey, thanks for praying for me!

    But, you fail to explain any of the many dozens of warnings and threats,
    which have nothing to do with rewards!

    Next up, I'm looking into FEAR ... lots of verses sayin' BACs should be livin' in FEAR!
    [​IMG]

    Just somethin' else for you to explain!

    Oh, yes, it's FEAR that we won't be gettin' as good rewards as someone else!
    [​IMG]

    The more I read, the more incredible things I see ...
    and they ain't pretty for today's Laodicean BACs (Rev 3)!

    If anyone can convince me that the epistle writers were BIG-time liars,
    hey, I'll start havin' a lot of second thoughts.
    Hint: today I got into James and Peter ... just as scary as Paul.

    .
     
    #9 evangelist-7, Dec 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  10. steaver

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    You do not want explanations, you have proven that over and over. You just want to preach your hatred of the brethren. I really don't understand how you have avoided being banned after the blasphemies you have spoken and in light of 1John3:15.

    You are unteachable, and I perceive that is due to a lacking of Holy Spirit, either no room for Him due to pride and arrogance, or He isn't there at all. Do you understand that ye must be born again?? All your post show you have never studied the concept from the Scriptures. Or have but couldn't understand it. Until you do, you will continue to preach hate and blasphemies.
     
  11. evangelist-7

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    As usual, Steaver has nothing to offer except to condemn members.
    We're supposed to be presenting Scripture to support our views.
    But, it seems obvious that Steaver is scared to death of the Scriptures.
    Sad.

    .
     
  12. DHK

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    There is nothing more to add to this discussion. As you admit:

    "I messed up."
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    Hint, paul was mentioning them as being the SAME group, for to disobey the Gospel of Christ was to reject jesus, thus getting the fire!
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    And they were going to 'get the fire' before they rejected Christ in the first place.
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    true, as what condemns us as sinners is being founf in Adam and in his Sin by/before God, NOT our unbelief, for that is the fruit of already being away from and sinners before God!
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    Exactly, yet many attack dog anti-cals and arminians on here don't believe this Biblical truth. They've made man the potter and God the clay and teach man is only condemned after rejecting Christ. Before this happens they're all part of the good ol' boy's club, seeking God, doing good works, loving God &c. Then God comes along and they need to exercise a decision, and for that decision they are given a reward.

    The bad part of it all? To them, these are only lost and condemned after rejecting or refusing to exercise an action of faith to receive the reward for doing. If that's the case, then these are OK now, and 'on their way to heaven' so since they believe all this muck, don't tell them the Gospel and they'll be just fine.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    I believe both E-7 and Bob Ryan are here to stir up trouble. The best thing folks could is simply ignore their threads. They surely start enough. Also they post the same Scripture repeatedly without comment.
     
    #17 OldRegular, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2013
  18. Yeshua1

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    Think many people just refuse to accept that how we view and see things is NOT always the way that God views them, as IF I think its unfair that many will be lost and condemned due to God already seeing them as being found guilty in Adam, that is saying that God was not fair...

    We really don't want God to be fair as by our standards, for if that were true, ALL would go to hell!

    Their views seem to line up with a book read while in college, 2 authors tried to biblcally explain the good news as God in the death of jesus had reconciled ALl sinners back to himself, even if they had never heard about him, and only those who know about Him and reject Him willingly will be lost!
     
  19. evangelist-7

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    Yes, I am sorry ... I forgot to include my middle name!

    But, at least I am true to my name ...
    I stir up trouble by quoting dozens of Scripture verses (which thou hatest).

    My condolances to you,
    Evangelist StirUpTrouble Seven

    .
     
  20. saturneptune

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    So are you talking about Paul of the Bible, or this Paul, Paul Washer..................
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cncEhCvrVgQ

    If it is the second one, you two have lots in common. Both of you are great, along with your theological friends, at ripping apart the work of the Lord and His intended purposes. Maybe you two could team up and appear on the Comedy Channel.
     

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