Another Ramadan dinner at the White house

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pennsylvania Jim, Nov 29, 2002.

  1. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    THE PRESIDENT: Good evening, and welcome to the White House. I'm so honored to welcome such distinguished guests and ambassadors during the holy month of Ramadan.

    America is made better by millions of Muslim citizens. America has close and important relations with many Islamic nations. So it is fitting for America to honor your friendship and the traditions of a great faith by hosting this Iftaar at the White House.

    I want to thank our Secretary of State for being here, as well as members of my administration. I want to thank the ambassadors for taking time in this holy month to come to join us in this feast.

    Ramadan is a time of fasting and prayer for the Muslim faithful. So tonight we are reminded of God's greatness and His commandments to live in peace and to help neighbors in need. According to Muslim teachings, God first revealed His word in the holy Qur'an to the prophet, Muhammad, during the month of Ramadan. That word has guided billions of believers across the centuries, and those believers built a culture of learning and literature and science...

    From: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011119-14.html
     
  2. Son of Consolation

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    I don't know what to make of this, other than the President is trying to build a coalition agaist Iraq and the el-Quaida. [​IMG]
     
  3. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Or, is it possible that he's not the great guy he's made out to be?

    F'rinstance, if it were Clinton doing the exact same things, would we be scratching our heads wondering why such a wonderful man is acting this way, or simply pointing out that a bad guy's doing bad things?
     
  4. Son of Consolation

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    Jim, since you did not make a point, I fail to see one here. :confused:
     
  5. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Barnabas,

    Not sure what you're getting at...I think we're confusing each other. :D

    I was curious about your post. I found Bush's comments offensive. Knowing your viewpoints, I thought that you would, too. Since you only said that you didn't know what to make of the comments, and then made a statement that could be construed as an excuse, I thought maybe you were somehow declining to judge Mr. Bush's comments by a fair standard.

    I guess that was my only point.
     
  6. Son of Consolation

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    Now we are getting someplace here Bro. Jim. Now I see your point, but from the opening post I did not. You did not share your views, only quoted the newsbrief. [​IMG]

    My opinion about this whole affair is in the first post. As I said, I do not know what to make of this, other than the President is trying to woo the Islamic nations as allies against Iraq & the el-Quaida forces. I did not comment on the political or religious significance of the matter. But as you've said, you know my Christian conservative views from other posts.... [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. Helen

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    I think President Bush is between a rock and a hard place. If he were to hold a strict Christian line, which we would all like to see (not being responsible for what it would do to world affairs ourselves...), then I do not know which nation would be with us, if any, in the fight against terrorism.

    Secondly, by reaching out to the 'non-fundamental' Muslims, which he has been making a concerted effort to do since 9/11 a year ago, he is helping widen a split in the Islamic consciousness.

    On the other hand, he seems to be essentially misrepresenting Islam, and that really bothers me because it could backfire on him -- and all of us -- very quickly.

    That's just the political stuff.

    Religiously? One either trusts God or one doesn't. God is bigger than the world situation, nevertheless I keep seeing evidences of things the Bible seems to be prophecying about concerning the last days.

    I'll let God judge Bush while at the same time I do wish he would be a little more honest about Islam despite political expediencies.
     
  8. Bartimaeus

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    As I remember in the scriptures, Solomon (no relationship to bush), made an affinity with Egypt. He did so as a political move to provide protection for his country through a marriage to Pharoah's daughter. Solomon did make the alliance, but nothing is said of him glorifying Egypt's pagan feasts or worship. At least he was that smart, yet God judged Solomon and his people. Bush, the Christian conservative party's political pretty boy is now showing his colors. The Democrats gave us the whoremongering, adultering deviate for a president and the Republicans gave us the sly, one world reptile that changes colors with every crowd he seeks to please.

    "Were they ashamed when they had committed the abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the Lord." Jer 6:15

    Come on Mr. Bush call Saudi Arabia and see if they will honor the American Thanksgiving and say that our God is the Great God and invite 50 Baptist Preachers to do their thing in your highest government building!

    Bush's problem is that he does not know the true God of heaven or he would NOT do such things.

    Tanks ------Bart
     
  9. Johnv

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    If President Bush were to celebrate Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur, would we be equally upset?
     
  10. Carly33

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    I'm equally dismayed by the president's lack of faithfulness to His God. I agree with Bart on this one....I can't judge Bush's salvation, but he is making worldly alliances...and if you read the OT you know how that goes.
     
  11. Bartimaeus

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    The promoted position of Mr. Bush is one of Christianity. Someone should read to him the verse found in I Corinthians 8:6.
    "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

    The number one is the number of primacy. To name God Jehovah and the Lord Jesus Christ you are saying this is the total sum and it MUST exclude ANY and ALL others. Bush vacillates continually on this issue. How can he be trusted with any other?

    He CANNOT!

    Thank you very much, ----Bart
     
  12. Mike McK

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    I don't like it, either, but Bush is their president, too.
     
  13. Ps104_33

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    The jackals that killed 3000 people in New York names werent Goldstein, Cohen, Rosenberg and Goldberg. You will find as time goes on and tensions increase, the American Muslims neutral stand on Middle Eastern hatred of this country will slowly turn to an active one of sympathy for their brethren over there. They will never be good Americans.
     
  14. Calista

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    This was said of slaves, Native Americans, Eastern Europeans, Irish, Jews, Japanese, etc. It wasn't true in the past and isn't true today.

    Being a good American has nothing to do with country of origin or religion--it has to do with excercising the rights and responsibilities required of all citizens.

    Also, I fail to see why American Muslims from Detroit or India or the Balkan area would feel a particular affinity for the Middle Eastern situation simply because they share a religion. Do Baptists align with the Protestants in Ireland based on shared Protestantism? (And Baptist and Anglican can be called shared in the same way that different Muslim groups can be lumped in the same bunch.) Or the Christian Palestinians who want rights in Israel?

    The situation in the Middle East has as much to do with politics as religion. The U.S. cannot and should not address the religious aspect--but it can and should address the political one. Working for democracy and freedom (even if it means we get results we neither like or control) should be the goal of a freedom-loving country.

    An aspect of a country that is freedom-loving is the freedom to worship as you choose AND to be free from worshipping as others would have you. Also, since we have church and state separation, the government and those who represent our government cannot prefer one religion over another. Therefore, Bush cannot and should not be some sort of religious figurehead. We don't live in a God-ordained state like Israel, we live in a secular society like Jesus did under Rome. That's the way our country is set up--and as many conservatives say--Love it or leave it! (I just couldn't resist that line! haha. :D )

    Cal
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I celebrate those holidays as well as Hannukah within the context of my Christian understanding. Are you saying that these are anti-Christian holidays. The comparison is apples and oranges as the foundation of Christian beliefs were set up in Judaism and the OT. Islam is not only have nothing to do with Christianity, it is anti-Christianity and has made as one of its goals to kill Christians and Jews. Ever wonder why they single out those two segments of society for the intafada and jihad? Since you seem to love them muslim terrorists so much, I am wondering if you just hate Jews. You seem to have less positive things to say about them than you do the terrorists/
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Translation: America needs the terrorists oil because the liberals care more about an Arctic wasteland than they do about the security of their own nation. Therefore, America has close relations with terrorists because we need their oil. Other than that, I cannot find any evidence of anything positive the Muslims have contributed to the world.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

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    The one and only true and living God had nothing to do with this pagan celebration and Bush ought to be ashamed of himself for saying so. Muhammed was one of the first Muslim Terrorists. What culture of learning and literature and science is he talking about. Is it the Madrases that teach their young to hate Jews and Christians and strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up in Israel killing others around them? PLEASE! :rolleyes:
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I wonder if taxpayer money was spent to fund this religious ceremony in the White House. I wonder if the ACLU will sue to protect separation of Church and State?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. Johnv

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    I wonder if taxpayer money was spent to fund this religious ceremony in the White House.

    That's a good question. Out of curiosity, is there any religious holiday where it would be acceptible for the President to take part of publicly, or for the White House to pick up the tab for?
     
  20. Johnv

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    The promoted position of Mr. Bush is one of Christianity....</font>[/QUOTE]Okay, but Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur are not celebrated by Christians. Would it be right for him to do so?
     

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