Another School shooting

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by El_Guero, Sep 29, 2006.

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  1. El_Guero

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  2. The Galatian

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    Attacks/crimes with a weapon per 100,000 public school students in 1996-1997
    U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, Fast Response Survey System, "Principal./ School Disciplinarian Survey on School Violence," 1997.
    Twenty-six. That's right. Twenty-six per one hundred thousand students. All crimes and attacks involving a weapon of any kind. About one incident for every 3846 students.
    Consider the rate of injury to a child by parents. The kids are safer in public schools than they are in their own homes.
     
  3. El_Guero

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    Pray for the family of the man that was killed . . .

    He was not safer at school.





     
  4. TaterTot

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    Goodness, this is so sad.
     
  5. The Galatian

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    Er, yes, he was. His chances were much better than if he had been at home.

    I was once certified as a safety engineer, and it always amused me that when I pointed out that some minor risk was "one chance in a million", some person would say "but what if you're that one", as though that meant anything at all about risk.

    Being unable to think about probabilities in a rational way leads people to make all sorts of self-destructive choices.
     
  6. Ralph III

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    Galatian,
    With all due respect is your "analysis" supposed to somehow offer condolences for this man's family? Is it supposed to offer insight into somehow solving societal problems?

    With probabilities. Most people are safe from drunk driving! So should we allow drunk driving and accept that some will suffer greatly?

    What's the purpose of your percentages and how does that help or even show concern!!? Also how were his chances better at school than at his home? Considering he was 100% murdered at school!

    What is the purpose of your post, please?

    In Christ, Ralph
     
    #6 Ralph III, Sep 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2006
  7. El_Guero

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    Ralph

    Thank you for addressing his statistical whatever it is.

    You did a very good job of it.

    God bless

    Wayne
     
  8. The Galatian

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    Of course not. If I was expressing condolences, I would have done it to his family. I was addressing the very odd belief that public schools are unsafe. Turns out that they are safer for kids than their own homes are.

    Well, yes. Public schools are rightfully obsessed with safety, and that obsession is paying off. Kids are far more likely to be hurt elsewhere. There's a lesson there, but many people don't want to hear it.

    Well, that's no dumber than the notion that schools are unsafe. But I don't agree with that, either. For one thing, most people aren't safe from drunk driving. It's one of the common killers.

    This is what I was trying to explain in the first place. You've got the notion that public schools are dangerous, and that most of us are safe from drunk drivers. Because you don't have any understanding of the hazards involved, you greatly overestimate the dangers of one, and greatly underestimate the dangers of the other.

    And yes, there is a social cost to that kind of befuddlement.

    I was just addressing the rather foolish notion that schools are dangerous, when they are among the safest places to be in our society.

    People are far more likely to be fatally injured at home than at school. It's just more dangerous.

    It's as though someone said "Let's roll dice. If it comes up six, I give you a dollar. If it comes up anything else, you pay me a dollar."

    And you just said. "Sounds like a good deal to me."

    The dice might come up six, too. But the smart money is somewhere else.

    To correct a rather egregious misunderstanding.
     
  9. El_Guero

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    My purpose was to ask for prayer . . . This post is to correct an intentional misunderstanding and the callousness that resulted.
     
  10. Gina B

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    Yes, it's frightening!

    For the other poster...

    Losing a loved one to an accident is more understandable than losing one in an atmosphere of hatred, fear, and violence. There are some things, no matter how low the risk, that a parent simply does not want to take with their own child. When it comes to protecting a child, you can take all the statistics and probabilities and shoot 'em to the moon, because even a 1 in 10,000 chance of being molested and then shot to death is too high when you're talking about my child.
     
  11. LeBuick

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    You got that right!
     
  12. The Galatian

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    Sadly, a chlid is more likely to die from violence in their own home.

    My job was (and still is, in a way) to protect people, and knowing that even bringing a child into the world exposes them to risk, I had to look for the least risk in many different situations.

    You should thank God that there are people who are considering the dangers and protecting you and your family. These people save thousands of children every year.

    You may have the luxury of assuming that likelihoods don't count. Some of us don't have that luxury, because others depend on us to protect them.

    The most dangerous thing of all, is to put all of our resources into "protecting" people from something that poses little danger, and ignoring much greater risks because they seem emotionally less challenging.
     
  13. Ralph III

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    Again Galation, your posts are irrelevant and indeed callous in nature! As El_Guero said.

    Your follow-up post to my pointing this out amounts to nothing more than a rant. You actually come across as offended that some are shocked by this event. Then go into what amounts to defending the safety of schools?

    Nobody is blaming the school, the police, or anyone for that matter in this thread! El-Guero pointed out a tragic event for which most responded in showing heartfelt sympathy. That our nation is in need of a revival! Which I wholeheartedly agree with, especially within the public domain. IE. Gov., Schools. We have numerous educators within our family, thus such things are not so distant. Especially when it comes to children.

    This is not a statistical debate and such comes across very poorly!! Nor is anyone here ignorant to such things, thank you.


    Let's just pray for all involved and let our concerns be known!


    In Christ, Ralph:jesus:


    Take care.
     
    #13 Ralph III, Sep 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2006
  14. El_Guero

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    I pray God that You will take the terroristic heart that is spreading among our disenfranchised adolescents and remove it from them. With whatever force You choose to use, Father protect our children. Not for our glory, but for Your glory.

    Father, we know that you will be glorified.

    Father God, we know that you want them safe with You. Indeed we honor Your sacrifice of Your Only Begotten Son, that each and every child might have the saving relationship of the Blood that You shed to keep each of us safe from eternal harm, judgment, damnation, and eternal death with the truly evil ones.

    Glorify Yourself Lord.

    Return the hearts of Your people to You. Change us from people that blame the weather, that blame pollution, that blame other men, that blame our childhoods, that blame evolution TO people that find all of our answers in You and Your saving grace.

    May the Lord and His peace be with each of you.
     
  15. Ralph III

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    Great prayer El_Guero!

    May I add just a little.

    Lord I pray that you would change the hearts of men. I pray that you would guide us in doing your Will and to council our leadership. To turn these men from worldly ways in order to again recognize your Supreme Authority! Lord Bless each and every one of us and help us to serve as the Christian example you would have us be. Bless and Guide this Nation that we can shine as a light for others and in inspiration of You. Be with and guide those in need. Thank You for all You have given us.

    In Christ We Pray. Amen
    .:jesus:
     
    #15 Ralph III, Sep 30, 2006
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  16. The Galatian

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    Who is more callous, the person who cries about how bad it is, or the person who rationally seeks to end suffering? If I'm ever injured I certainly hope that a "callous" doctor will be there to assess the situation and do the right things.

    How is observing that children are safer in public schools than elsewhere, a rant? You seem to be reacting emotionally to anything that challenges your assumptions.

    It seems incredible to me that any rational person would think so. You seem infuriated that your beliefs aren't true.

    Then you have no reason to be so defensive. The point was merely that schools are not the dangerous places some people here seem ti imagine them to be.

    Indeed. I'm still trying to figure out why you think facts are "callous."

    I'm pointing out that it would be much more compassionate to address the most serious hazards first, as this would prevent more suffering. You seem very upset that public schools are safe. This makes no sense to me.

    Wouldn't you agree, then, that we should address the things that are most dangerous to our children, rather than the things that present little hazard? If not, why not?

    If we are talking about the public, it is always statistical. You have no way of determining such things, other than with the numbers. Otherwise, the vast majority who have had no experience of a shooting in a school will imagine that there is no hazard whatever, and those who happen to have seen one will think that there is a great hazard.

    Well, it certainly seems as though it was news to many here.



    God will do His part, and we must do ours. He expects us to use the sense He gave us to work out our own problems.
     
  17. LeBuick

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    Are you a parent? I don't think so because you would have completely understood her point. We appreciate you and what you do but when you child becomes at risk, nothing else matters including your personal safety. At that time it's not about number, statistics, who is on whose side, a parent will have one fucal point. Their CHILD! Nothing else will matter.
     
  18. The Galatian

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    Barbarian observes:
    You should thank God that there are people who are considering the dangers and protecting you and your family. These people save thousands of children every year. You may have the luxury of assuming that likelihoods don't count. Some of us don't have that luxury, because others depend on us to protect them.


    Five kids, from 34 to 14. Catholic, you know. :smilewinkgrin:

    I understand the point. If my child is hurt, my emotions completely overrule any rational considerations of risk. That's normal and human and perfectly all right.

    But you should thank God that there are people who do take a careful and rational look at these things, and they save thousands of lives. That means that there are many, many fewer parents who have to grieve for a child. And you should be happy, not irate about that.

    It is, thanks to some of these people, that our public schools are among the safest places your child can be. You might even think about thanking them for what they do, next time you have a chance.
     
    #18 The Galatian, Sep 30, 2006
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  19. Marcia

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    I see both sides here, I think. Galatian is simply pointing out objective data and fact - what he says is true, that kids have a higher chance of being hurt at home than at school

    The others see this shooting as yet another scary incident where kids are attacked, in an unexpected and violent way, and that makes a parent feel insecure about their child being in what seems an ordinary normal place like school. I get that, too.

    I do think that school shootings, as few as there have been compared to how many schools do not have these shootings, seem to have crossed some kind of line, and I think that is what many are reacting to. Most of us did not think about school shootings before the late 90's, and so every time there is one, after what seems to have been a string of them in a short time, it is alarming and makes us feel kids are unsafe, despite the stats.

    I don't think Galatian is being callous; he's just being objective and in his own way, probably trying to be reassuring. And I appreciate El Guero's prayer as well.
     
    #19 Marcia, Sep 30, 2006
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  20. The Galatian

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    And you pulled it together much better than I could have done. Well done.
     
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