Another thought while reading through Mathew regarding Judas' regret

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by zrs6v4, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
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    I noticed that Judas regret all he did to Jesus and returned the money to the Pharisees. I think this is quite interesting and a little scary. Judas knew and walked with Jesus through His ministry and knew Jesus mercy toward the brokenhearted. The Scripture says that Judas realized his condemnation for betraying Jesus and as a result it drove him mad to the point of suicide. To me this throws a huge wrench in current thought. My question is why didnt Judas repent and go back to the Lord for mercy? This screams out at me every time I read this about him. The part that is a little scary is that it is clear that repentance was not granted Judas apparently. Judas must have gone past the point of no return, when in fact it seems there was no repentance offered to him. I dunno I'm just talking, but what do you think when you listen to the testimony of Judas?
     
  2. Allan

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    The word 'grant' means to 'allow' and since this is dealing with repentance it makes sense. God does not 'give' us repentance (as in places it into us because we could never be remorseful and seeking of forgiveness) however since God is the offended party only He can allow you to repent or not. God commands all men to repent and desires all men to come to the knowledge of the truth, so in effect God allows all men intially to repent but that door is not everlastingly open.
    As a side note: The only place in scripture that make this type of statement is dealing with a christian who has gone back into sin and passage is refering to the believer being 'granted' or 'allowed' to repent.

    We know from scripture that God commands all men to repent as well as desires all men to come to the knowledge of the truth, and if men will not then God will turn them over to their own lusts/godless desires - IOW God is no longer going to deal with them.

    We find this same thing (God no longer dealing with men over sin) with Judas. Judas was one of the 12 and Jesus expounded to him, like the other 11, the mysteries His preaching, and even empowered him over demons like the others. He was given all that the others were given but still he chose to go his own way. To me, Judas just like Israel, I see as a picture to us of God's dealing and working upon all men in the same manner/way. However what is to be noted is that God designed this 'calling' in such a way as to only bring to Himself a specific and certian people, those of faith - His chosen.
    This design though it works in the same way both toward and upon all men, it does not bring about the same responce in all men and is designed specifically to seperate those of faith and those not.

    As I said just a bit ago about Judasl being much like Israel. All people who were of Israel were dealt with in the same manner, given the same promises and benifits and teachings and yet not all who were of Israel were saved, only those of faith. Thus even the sacrifice of atonement was made on behalf of all of Israel and yet only those of faith had the sacrifice applied to their sins. God called to them all the same, or gave to them the same understandings but not all would come, much akin to the parable of the Wedding Feast.


    Anyway, no matter how one sees the issue with Judas I will say this; Woe to the ones whom God has let go their own way because after that there is no hope or mercy left for them at that time. Up till that time yes, but not after. (Rom 1; 2 Thes 2:10-12)

    At least that is my nickle's worth.
     
    #2 Allan, Oct 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2009
  3. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
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    There is a lot to comment on here and I agree with a majority of it I think.


    Judas must not have had the same desires as the other 12, he must have been blinded his whole life and unborn of the Spirit of God. To make a long leap I would say he never feared God or feared consequences of his actions. We unfortunatley dont have a play by play on Judas' feelings in various situations but we do know he plotted to betray Jesus for awhile. Jesus also said this was that the will of God would come to pass.

    I agree with you that there is a sense in which God longs for all sinners to repent, but I continually see nobody repenting unless they share this new nature of understanding as far as the Gospel goes, not only this understanding but in a sence a new set of spiritual eyes that cause them to persevere and fear losing God if you will, in some cases.

    The granting of repentance to me is of course another deep subject. I would say, in my limited understanding, that God does long for all of the wicked sinners to repent and that he desires to suffer for them and carry them along in life. The big problem is the depths of sin which is so deeply interwoven in sinners that they literally hate God and dont respnd to Him on their own wills (b/c all of their wills oppose God), even when presented a chance to turn to Christ rejection is always going to happen. I think this sin issue blinds us so deeply that even in the eyes of the Gospel we cant see and understand the beauty and possibilities God can do if we only come to Him. My point is that this sinning is never going to stop for us outside of the work of God in salvation. So God's granting repentence isnt that he has denied us, but we've always denied Him. His granting is literally opening our eyes and rescuing us from the slavery we live in to the flesh and imparting life to our dead souls.

    With all of that rambling, I think Judas was a dead soul throughout the whole walk with Jesus. I think he was so deeply seperate from God, as all unbelivers, that he didnt see the glory of the kingdom and what he was selling his soul for. I think whenever he betrayed Jesus at the end that God showed him how incredibly wicked he was and his actions and he couldnt handle himself in the face of condemnation. I think he had a glimpse of what many will have when they see God (unbelievers) and realize they have denied Jesus there entire lives and really comprehend it.

    I think this is a great lesson in that I know I have chosen to deny Christ so many times for whatever fleshly desire I had and maybe I myself have treated Jesus like Judas did. Obviously none of us will ever have the opportunity to betray Jesus like Judas did, but I think those actions are in our blood as well. So to rap up this response I'd say we aren't any better than Judas and we deserve to stand in the eyes of that condemnation He did, but God has mercy on us in such a deep and loving way that we are saved from it eternally and that should make us tremble.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    Scripture says about Judas:

    John 17:12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    Mark 14:21. The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
     
  5. kyredneck

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    Also:

    Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil? Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6:70,71

    But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, that should betray him, saith, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred shillings, and given to the poor? Now this he said, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the bag took away what was put therein. Jn 12:4-6

    -----------------------------------

    I place the regret of Judas in the same catagory as 'the weeping and gnashing of teeth' of those that have been cast out into the outer darkness.

    Consider Essau's regret:

    lest there be any fornication, or profane person, as Esau, who for one mess of meat sold his own birthright. For ye know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no place for a change of mind in his father, though he sought it diligently with tears. Heb 12:16,17

    Consider the regret of Israel when they were rejected from entering into the promised land:

    35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see the good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,
    45 And ye returned and wept before Jehovah; but Jehovah hearkened not to your voice, nor gave ear unto you. Dt 1

    When the door is shut from on high................it's all over with but the crying.
     
    #5 kyredneck, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2009
  6. menageriekeeper

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    I think there is a difference between regret and repentance. Judas certainly regretted what he had done, but he didn't repent. There was no asking of forgiveness that is required with repentance.

    Judas wanted to stop what he had done, because in his mind that would equal restitution, but he never understood that true repentance means accepting God's provision for forgiveness. Judas wanted to fix things on his own terms.
     
  7. zrs6v4

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    Isn't this ironic to you? I think this illuminates the depravity of man like crazy. You mean to tell me Judas was with Jesus preaching for three years, saw all what Jesus did and taught and was not able to connect his sorrow with repentance? I think it amazing that you can be so close to God and hear all of the truth and yet be so blind. I could go on but I think this is interesting..
    So basically your saying Judas never understood the Gospel he heard? I would agree but again that is interesting to say the least. I think in Judas' blindness he did want to fix things as you say, by killing himself rather than turning to Christ for mercy which somehow he either didn't understand, didn't want, or was not granted? And I don't mean God resists people who come to Him for salvation when I say he wasnt granted. In my eyes granting is the blessing of grace that overcomes sin in a person.
     
  8. menageriekeeper

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    A few thoughts color coded for ease.

    Ironic? Not really. Just as Adam walked with God, Judas walked with Christ. Neither understood who they were dealing with.

    Yes, that is pretty much what I am saying. Just as Cain wanted to do things his own way even though he certainly knew what God required.

    I think that Judas heard and understood the gospel without ever truely believing that Christ was the Messiah and the sacrifice for sin. I believe that it is possible that Judas and others believed that Christ was the Messiah, but left out the whole idea of a sacrifice for sin. They were looking for a conquering king, not a perfect lamb. And when Christ didn't conquer, Judas ignored the other more important half of the equation. And his rejection of that led to his rejection by God and his subsequent blindness.

    Probably some of all three. Or rather the first two lead to the third as Paul says "God gave them over to reprobate minds" (I can't think of the exact wording at the moment).
     

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