Answering AV1611's Christian Rock Page

Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by CubeX, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. CubeX

    CubeX
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    This is the site: http://www.av1611.org/crock.html

    I will be working on formally reviewing this article, but I do have to get this off my chest:

    This is one of the worst articles to use against Christian music that I have ever read! The attacks aren't even on Christian rock! They are focused on the artists! The author even goes as far as to say that music has morals based on a statement by Micheal Jackson!

    This issue must be answered and this article needs a formal review, even if its materials are outdated (a lot of the artists I haven't even heard of or even listened to!).

    Just because this author claims that this article is based on the Bible, that doesn't mean it is. In the question area "But aren't you limiting God?", he "beats-around-the-bush" and never answers the question. He merely repeats to test all the spirits, something that we all should do, but never does he conclusively answer the question.

    I will be examining this article, but it may take some time. The majority of his material is outdated, biased, and secularly based.

    Let's all look into this issue. Does music have morals? Or is it the emotions an individual derives from the music that drive them to do improper things. Jesus displayed anger, sadness, and happiness (the Basic 3, as they are called b/c all others are derived from them). Did He display them righteously? Yes. He takes his own uninvestigated opinions on music psychology.

    He attacks the past of individuals, but love "keeps no record of wrongs". Although I do believe that he did his best to have a loving attitude, his statements are nonetheless prejudiced towards the individual's past and (at that time) present. It had very little to do with music, but rather focused on the roots of the terminology used in Rock.

    I'll post later with a review.
    -David
     
  2. Robert B

    Robert B
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    Hi David,

    I would have to agree with you. That article is so biased and misleading on so many ways, that it's hard to take it seriously. He shouts things in bold and italic and giant text and expects us to just believe anything he says.

    Just because there is an article about Christian rock doesn't mean that article is correct or valid. It seems like some people here will just assume everything in it is correct because it proclaims to be a Christian site. It's not that simple though, as anyone who knows anything about Christian rock could tell you.

    God bless.
     
  3. Ishouldbhappy

    Ishouldbhappy
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    That is so crazy. If you do not like it do not listen to it is how I feel. Why do we always have to point the finger? My preacher always says we are all equal at the foot of the cross. That means no matter if what we listen to. Music is music it is not going to send us to hell
    Kristen
     
  4. Robert B

    Robert B
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    I will respond to the part of his page dealing specifically with dc talk. About them, that site says this:

    Isaiah 43:19 says, "Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?" This is the verse dc Talk was referencing when they came up with the title of their album. To attack them on this is bewildering.

    Why throw one past mistake in the face of a Christian? I've had past mistakes, and I'm sure you all have too, especially when we were more youthful, but that is not a license to throw it in our face to invalidate an entire ministry of God honoring music. This guy's logic perplexes me.

    Okay, I'll remember that.

    This is petty Terry [the author of the site]. Take a look at the song "Red Letters" or "into Jesus" or "Fearless" by dc Talk, and then try to tell us that they are trying to belittle the name of Christ. This is outrageous.

    Well Terry, apparently you didn't know that back in the 70's people used the term "Jesus Freak" to refer to Christian negatively. However, the message of dc Talk was basically, "Call me what you wish, but I love Jesus no matter what. And if you want to call someone who is devoutly comiitted to Jesus a 'Freak' then fine, that's what I am, a Jesus Freak."

    But Toby's additional explanation is valid too, a freak can mean an ardent enthusiast about a particular subject. If you don't like that, then it's not your duty to claim that they irreverent just because you don't like that term.

    Apparently Terry doesn't listen to too many of dc Talk's other songs, like "In the Light," "Red Letters," "Fearless" etc.

    He is absolutely, undeniably WRONG to claim that all Christian artists degrade the name of Jesus. That is an awful, unsubstantiated thing to say. Your opinion about one or two songs isn't grounds to say all Christian artists degrade Christ's name.

    That's unequivocally FALSE! dc Talk never claimed that Jesus was a freak, nor did they say he was a hip-hopping, rapper. Why is he taking unwarranted leaps in his claims here? Could it be because he had an underlying bias against all Christian artists before he even "examined" these artist?

    That is quite a bold thing to say with such flaky substantiation, Terry. You added and misinterpreted dc Talk's words and intent, and then claim they are not talking about Jesus of the Bible. Very unfortunate.

    No one ever said He was.

    Of course He is all of the above. Dc Talk doesn't disagree with you on that.

    I will have part two coming up sometime soon. Terry has a lot more on dc Talk which I think is ridiculous.

    Take care,
    God bless.
     
  5. CubeX

    CubeX
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    That's a very good criticism Robert B. But you missed a couple of points that I would have brought out, so I will be working on doing the same thing as you today. It's spring break (FINALLY! :D ) and so I have plenty of time to do so.

    Also, when you were talking about an underlying bias that the author had before writing about dc Talk, I thought I'd post this up about pressupositions:

    "Once upon a time there was a man who thought he was dead. His concerned wife and friends sent him to the friendly neighborhood psychiatrist. The psychiatrist determined to cure him by convincing him of one fact that contradicted his belief that he was dead. The psychiatrist decided to use the simple truth that dead men do not bleed. He put his patient to work reading medical texts, observing autopsies, etc. After weeks of effort the patient finally said, "All right, all right! You've convinced me. Dead men do not bleed." Whereupon the psychiatrist stuck him in the arm with a needle, and the blood flowed. The main looked down with a contorted, ashen face and cried: "Good Lord! Dead men bleed after all!"
    (Montgomery, TAMD, 21-22)

    -David
     
  6. CubeX

    CubeX
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    Wow! Everyone! You need to check out this site right here:
    http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/craindex.htm

    This is 2 years worth of research that this guy has done on Christian rock and even CCM. I agree with him about CCM -- that it isn't perfect, but then again, neither is the church, but the motives (like any conservative critic would say) are the right ones. Even Christians make mistakes, get over it! God did for you when you asked for his forgiveness!

    Oh, the halarious issues I have found in this quest for the truth! I have found an article fully focused on body-surfing! While I would say it's dangerous and, as one author said, (1 Corinthians 7:1) "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.", I have to say...?

    You bump into people all the time! Have you ever done a COPE course? You end up touching people! I believe that that passage is being misquoted based on the fact that when you read the verse in context, you see that it means to have "relations" with a woman and to avoid fornification. I'm not trying to justify fornification here at all! It's wrong! The Bible plainly states that! But, to use this verse in opposition to body-surfing...I think you should sit down for a while and take a load off. Besides, 2 things: 1) Body-surfing is something that CAN happen at a CONCERT, it has nothing to do with the music aspect of it, and 2) I've personally never met a girl who would body-surf! :D (LOL)

    I'm now researching the use of the words "sing", "sang", "play" (relating to music)", and "praise" (not necessarily related to music). I also am looking at the Hebrew and Greek words of each.

    But...and you had to have known there would be a but...I have one last thing to say about the morality of music.

    There has been an argument made that when a musical note is played by itself, it has no morals. But when other notes are added, it communicates to the listener. While this is partially true, a single note also transmits a frequency to the brain.
    The BRAIN interprets the note or the collection of notes (chords) and, if repeated, an automatic rhythem, and it incorporates all of the individual's surrounding circumstances - mood, enviroment, etc. - and produces an emotional response. The individual then takes that response and creates an action that fits their method of handling emotions.

    Music --> Brain --> Response(Emotion) --> Actions

    Here's a little bit to soak up for the moment. Sry for such LOOONNNNG posts!

    God-bless!
    -David

    Also! A note to all Pro-Christian Rock'ers:
    If those who oppose Christian Rock think that it is a sin in their lives, then they shouldn't listen to it! Their convictions, however, are not binding on anybody else. Those of us excercising the freedom that Paul talked about in Romans should not bother these young people or attempt to change their personal convictions about music. (from http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/twosides.htm)

    [ March 29, 2005, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CubeX ]
     

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