Antichrist/False Prophet

Lori, In II Thess. 2:3-4 the Bible tells us that the "man of sin" i.e. the Antichrist will not be revealed until he sits in the Jewish Temple proclaiming that he is God. This occurs in the middle of Daniel's Seventieth Week,the Tribulation. Anyone who is alive and understands Bible prophesy at that time will be able to reconize him no matter what thier denomination. Whether thy will admit that he is the Antichrist or not will be up to each individual. Of course, Pre-tribulationalist believe all Christians will be removed from the earth three and one half years before this so if this were true they will never know who the Antichrist is! On the other hand Post-tribulationalist , at least those who know anything about ther Bibles, will easily recognize him.

 

Geno,

Bear with me while I "nitpick" your post to Lori. Please don't take my comments personally as I am only interested in using your post as teaching example.

"Lori, In II Thess. 2:3-4 the Bible tells us that the "man of sin" i.e. the Antichrist will not be revealed until he sits in the Jewish Temple proclaiming that he is God."

Verse 4 states some things that the Antichrist AS SATAN INCARNATE will do AFTER his revelation. Verse 7 states what has to happen to facilitate the revelation of the "man of sin", the "son of perdition", "that Wicked", Satan Incarnate. Someone has to be "taken out of the way".

This occurs in the middle of Daniel's Seventieth Week,the Tribulation.

The revelation of "that Wicked" occurs in the MIDST of Daniel's 70th week. That isn't necessarily the middle. For example, Wednesday occurs in the MIDST of our week, however, events can occur on Wednesday morning, afternoon or evening. Thinking "outside the box", the Great Tribulation does not have to start in the exact middle of Daniel's 70th week. It could and probably will start earlier in the 4th year of Daniel's week.

This occurs in the middle of Daniel's Seventieth Week, the Tribulation.

Equating Daniel's 70th week to a "seven year tribulation" is a SUPPOSITION of MAN that has no scriptural basis. There is only ONE definitive tribulation, the great tribulation spoken of by the Lord Jesus Christ in His Olivet Discourse (see Matthew 24). He called the events leading up to the great tribulation the BEGINNING of SORROWS.

Anyone who is alive and understands Bible prophesy at that time will be able to recognize him no matter what their denomination. Whether they will admit that he is the Antichrist or not will be up to each individual.

Anyone who is alive and "received not the love of the truth" will be sent a "strong delusion" by God, "that they should believe a lie". (see 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11).

Of course, Pre-tribulationalist believe all Christians will be removed from the earth three and one half years before this so if this were true they will never know who the Antichrist is!

Perhaps in the CLASSICAL definition of a "Pre-tribulationalist", but not in the case of the "Midweek" rapture position. This position holds that the rapture occurs in the MIDST of Daniel's week BEFORE the start of the Great Tribulation.

On the other hand Post-tribulationalist, at least those who know anything about their bibles, will easily recognize him.

This statement flies in the face of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11. No member of the body of Christ will ever see the Antichrist AS SATAN INCARNATE. The elect Jews and Gentiles that go into the Great Tribulation will identify him though.

 

R U kiddin'? We can't agree on what day of the week the Sabbath is.

 

Great, so now it looks like Darth Vader is the Antichrist .

 

Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword [shall be] upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

 

The bible identifies TWO entities as the Antichrist.
(1) A MAN.
(2) Satan incarnate indwelling in that MAN.

Here is a short bible study that summarizes the identity of these two entities.
First, let's examine the identity of the "Son of Perdition", "that Wicked" who is the 8th king of Revelation 17:11.

The 8th king:

(1) is Satan incarnate in the body of the resurrected Antichrist (Revelation 13:3,14, 17:11).
(2) is "that Wicked" who the Lord Jesus Christ consumes with the spirit of His mouth (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
(3) is the "son of perdition" who is revealed when the 7th king is "taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:7, Revelation 17:11).
(4) is revealed in the midst of Daniel's 70th week and power is given to him to continue forty and two months (Daniel 9:27, Revelation 13:5).
(5) will accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people (Daniel 12:7).
(6) is confederated with 10 other kings that receive power for one "hour" with him (Revelation 17:12).
(7) will subdue three of the 10 kings (Daniel 7:8, 20, 24).
(8) is the "little horn" that shall rise out of the "diverse beast" (Daniel 7:20, 24).
(9) is the iron/clay feet of Daniel's image with the 10 other kings being the toes (Daniel 2:41-43).

Working backwards from the identity of the 8th king, the 7th king can be identified.

The 7th king:

(1) is the Antichrist AS A MAN before he is assassinated (Revelation 13:1-2, 17:10).
(2) makes a league with Israel at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 11:23).
(3)is the rider of the white horse who goes forth conquering and to conquer (Revelation 6:2).
(4) is the king that has not yet come and when he comes must continue a "short space" (Revelation 17:10).
(5) is assassinated (Revelation 13:3, 14).
(6) shall arise with 3 kings (Daniel 7:3, 17).
(7) is the "diverse beast" (Daniel 7:7, 19).
(8) is the iron legs of Daniel's image (Daniel 2:40).

 

R.J. No offence taken but I feel if you are going to teach then I must disagree to your teaching. You wrote "The revelation of "that Wicked" occurs in the MIDST of Daniel's 70th week. That isn't necessarily the middle." My dictionary says that midst means "the central part; middle; often with the implication of being surrounded" and that the synonyms are center,amid, or middle.
You also wrote "Thinking "outside the box", the Great Tribulation does not have to start in the exact middle of Daniel's 70th week. It could and probably will start earlier in the 4th year of Daniel's week." I must take issue with this statement since I do believe the Great Tribulation begins in the "exact middle" of Jacob's Troubles. In Luke 21;5-24 we find the same discourse between Christ and His disciples as in Mt 24:3-28 with some information added or left out as the Holy Spirit lead. In Mt 24:15 they are told of the abomination; in verse 16 they are told to flee; verse 21 then there shall be a time of great tribulation. In Luke 21;20 it speaks of desolation; in verse 21 they are told to flee; and in verse 24 Jerusalem is trodden down of the gentiles. So we know that the abomination of desolation will enter the temple, the people are to flee, Jerusalem will be captured, and these things start the Great Tribulation (Luke 21:22). Rev. 11:1-2 tells us that that very gentile army spoken of in Daniel 9:26 that is going to destroy the city and sanctuary will tread it under foot forty-two months, three and one half years, till Christ returns at the end of the tribulation. That means if the capture of Jerusalem starts the Great Tribulation then it must start in the "exact middle" of Daniel's seventieth week and it shall continue until the second coming.
Also, you stated that no christian will see the Antichrist indwelt by Satan. I disagree, I believe any christian alive and able will see him. I would give you my reasons but I have already written more than I intended to.
Thank you for considering my position.
In Christ the Great God!
Geno

 

I have heard several people that think Jean-Marie Lustiger is the anti-christ. He is Pope John Paul II number one pick for his replacement. Lustiger is a Jewish born Cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church. I don't have any idea who the anti-christ will be, but Lustiger gets me thinking. Hmmmm Jewish Roman Catholic Pope????

Because of Christ, my Savior and my Lord!
Deborah

 

Geno,

No offense taken to your disagreeing with my end times teaching. I can see from your post that we disagree on more than just the midst/middle issue. It appears that we also disagree on:

(1) what constitutes the "time of Jacob's trouble" and, perhaps,

(2) the definition of the "Abomination of Desolation".

For the purposes of this discussion, let's focus on the "Great Tribulation". We know from Daniel and Revelation of various time periods:

(a) "a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days" (i.e. 1260 days) in which the two witnesses prophecy (Revelation 11:3),
(b) "a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days" in which Israel will be protected and fed in the wilderness (Revelation 12:6),
(c) "forty [and] two months" in which the Gentiles will tread under foot the city of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:2),
(d) "forty [and] two months" in which the first beast continues (Revelation 13:5),
(e) "a time and times and the dividing of time" in which the diverse beast will wear out the saints of the most High (Daniel 7:25),
(f) "a time, times and a half" to scatter the power of the holy people (Daniel 12:7),
(g) "a thousand two hundred and ninety days" denoting a time period following the Abomination of Desolation (Daniel 12:11),
(h) "thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" concerning those that 'waiteth, and cometh' (Daniel 12:12),
(i) "a time, and times, and half a time" in which Israel will be nourished in the wilderness (Revelation 12:14).

Notice that in all of the times mentioned in the list above that there is NOT ONE that specifically delineates the Great Tribulation. The reason can be found in Matthew 24:22. The days of the great tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect. That is a biblical fact.

All of the ASSOCIATIONS of the times listed above with the "Great Tribulation" are simply SUPPOSITIONS of MAN which can't be prooftexted by any verse or passage within the Holy Scriptures.

Now let's look at this verse:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Notice that events occur AFTER the "tribulation of those days". The sign (see "ensign" in Isaiah 5, 11, 18, 30, 31 & Zechariah 9) of the Son of man shall appear (Matthew 24:30). Christ will send his angels to gather His elect (this is a gathering of LIVING tribulation saints and has nothing whatsoever to do with the gathering of members of the body of Christ).

There is a whole lot happening AFTER the Great Tribulation BUT BEFORE the end of Daniel's 70th week. That's why you can rest assured that the Great Tribulation DOES NOT start in the exact middle of Daniel's 70th week. You also have EXTRA days of Daniel 12:11-12 to account for. If you believe these time periods fall within Daniel's 70th week, then you have to move the Great Tribulation forward in the week to make room for the EXTRA days at the end.

 

R.J., Thank you for taking the time to reply but I am confused. You said in your first post that "It could and probably will start earlier in the 4th year of Daniel's week.". Now your saying I need to make the Great Tribulation before the exact middle? Anyway, I know for sure that the Great Tribulation starts with the abomination of desolation and with the gentiles taking over Jerusalem. I know that it goes for forty-two months until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.(see above) Therefore it cannot start any later than mid week. As to it starting earlier than midweek, I doubt it. The reason the times of the gentiles cease and Jerusalem is recovered is the return of Messiah which ends the rule of Antichrist and Satan. The return of Jesus and removal of Antichrist ends the Seventieth week of Daniel. The seventy five days you refer to in Daniel are after Messiah's return and appear to be a time of recapturing the earth and of judgement. It is my opinion that the Great Tribulation begins in the middle of the "week".
Again R.J., thanks for taking the time to consider my position.